Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:17:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:17:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:17:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:15:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:12:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.tenforward.com (mail.tenforward.com [206.213.105.2]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:12:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.213.105.137] by mail.tenforward.com (SMTPD32-3.04) id AA9DEF501B2; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:15:25 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970712091154.006b9ed0@mail.tenforward.com> X-Sender: tates@mail.tenforward.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 09:11:54 -0700 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: tates Subject: Re: W-EMED Vacuum Splints In-Reply-To: <10383069@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: d134b71adfa579d0f05dab8e65b62bba Status: U The local Ski Team uses one of the Vacuum Backboards and they like it. We use prosplints and SAM splints because of lightness etc. The ones that I have seen seem to be quite heavy and the pump awkward but I haven't looked into them in the last couple of years. There is a team that uses polymer? (looks like fiberglass) casting and then the ER cuts the person out at the hospital. They like it and say that it only takes a few minutes to harden and is very stable. David At 04:27 PM 11/09/1997 EDT, you wrote: >My search and rescue team is evaluating the use of Vacuum splints in >conjunction with our litters. I was wondering what experiences/comments people >may have about the use of such splints for SAR. Specifically, I'm interested >in the following: > >- Comments on their utility in the SAR environment > (e.g., weight, durability in outdoor environments) >- Recommendation of specific models to consider or avoid >- Has anyone encountered compatability problems between vaccum splints and >Stokes (basket) or Junkin litters? > >I would appreciate any and all comments or suggestions. > >Thank you, >Matthew Russell >matthew.f.russell@dartmouth.edu >Do not reproduce without author's express permission. >To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" >as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu >Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 19:22:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from local (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.5/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 19:22:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 19:22:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 19:21:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from local (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.5/cisls-2.4) ID ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 19:20:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: list.srv.cis.pitt.edu: majordom set sender to owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine using -f Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.5/cisls-2.4) ID for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 19:20:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.142.57.10.pitt.edu (ehdup-d3-11.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.20.241]) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.6/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 19:18:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707162318.TAA18932@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Keith Conover, M.D." To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 19:17:59 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: W-EMED heatstroke article Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 1f4c28dc01bf4fdf0f7c11ce7df14b63 Back on the 15th of June, Chuck Stewart posed a question about the validity of this article: 1. Armstrong LE, Crago AE, Adams R, Roberts WO, Maresh CM Whole-body cooling of hyperthermic runners: comparison of two field therapies Am J Emerg Med 1996; 14:355-8 Severe exercise-induced hyperthermia requires rapid cooling. Of the many cooling modalities available, there is disagreement over which is the most effective. The purpose of this field study was to compare two cooling therapies for hyperthermic distance runners who had completed an 11.5-km summer foot race. Twenty-one distance runners (mean [+/- SE] initial rectal temperature 41.2 +/- 0.2 degrees C) were treated either by ice water immersion (1 to 3 degrees C, n = 14) or by air exposure while wrapped in wet towels (24.4 degrees C ambient, n = 7). Ice water immersion versus air exposure resulted in significantly different (P < .005) pretherapy to posttherapy changes in rectal temperature (-3.0 +/- 0.3 v -1.4 +/- 0.3 degrees C) and mean cooling rate (0.20 +/- 0.02 v 0.11 +/- 0.02 degrees C/min). Ice water immersion cooled approximately twice as fast as air exposure. These data refute the theory that ice water immersion is an inefficient cooling modality. He suggested a problem was with just covering the shoulders with a wet towel -- the way I read it, they covered the torso and thighs (similar to the area covered by the ice water), not the whole body as is routinely done with a sheet, and they also didn't fan the patient -- and as we know, especially in humid areas, forced convection makes a big difference. So, for different reasons, I agree with Chuck -- discount this study. It is meaningless. --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:08:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from local (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.5/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:08:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:08:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:06:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from local (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.5/cisls-2.4) ID ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:05:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: list.srv.cis.pitt.edu: majordom set sender to owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine using -f Received: from mlngw.chinalake.navy.mil (mlngw.chinalake.navy.mil [129.131.110.31]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.5/cisls-2.4) ID for ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:05:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: 17 Jul 1997 08:55:56 -0700 From: "Chris Antonsen" Subject: Re: W-EMED heatstroke articl To: "wilderness-emergency-medicine@" X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP-QM 3.0.2 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 443b7a263b302fc1f253693a0dde999c X-PMFLAGS: 33554560 0 Reply to: RE>W-EMED heatstroke article >begin clip: Back on the 15th of June, Chuck Stewart posed a question about the validity of this article: 1. Armstrong LE, Crago AE, Adams R, Roberts WO, Maresh CM Whole-body cooling of hyperthermic runners: comparison of two field therapies Am J Emerg Med 1996; 14:355-8 Severe exercise-induced hyperthermia requires rapid cooling. Of the. . . . -- and as we know, especially in humid areas, forced convection makes a big difference. So, for different reasons, I agree with Chuck -- discount this study. It is meaningless. --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP >end clip Discount the CONCLUSIONS of the study, but hang onto the data - especially the immersion data. If (when) someone else gets around to doing a well structured study of this issue it provides a reference point. I have not read (nor will I be reading) the article in question, but speaking as a test engineer, data is just data. What we make of it based on preconceived notions (one of those notions being that we structured a good test) is where we go wrong. Perhaps a better conclusion is that even when employed in an inefficient manner, the "swamp cooler" method can achieve 50% of what can be done with the ice water immersion method, and in many cases that could be the difference between life and death (this is, after all, the WILDERNESS-emergency-medicine discussion group). Just 2 cents buys this opinion. Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-cs: From: Self To: EMED List ,wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Fatigue book review Cc: Robert Koester Reply-to: kconover+@pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:53:22 Just finished reading a small book. Thought that almost everyone on this list might find it of interest. The book is called "Fatigue: Sleep Management During Disasters and Sustained Operations." It is a 55-page book in soft-cover format, by Robert Koester, who is a long-time friend and colleage. His academic background is in researching biological rhythms (e.g., circadian rhythms) at the University of Virginia. However, I know him because we are both active with the Appalachian Search and Rescue Conference -- and as an IC (Incident Commander), Bob has probably run more large lost-person search operations than just about anyone in the world (no exaggeration). And, not too long ago, we lost on of our search managers to a single-vehicle accident due to fatigue -- the major spur to Bob's writing this book. The book serves as a student manual to a course on fatigue for SAR personnel. In the back of the book is ordering information for the teaching materials for the course. But, it stands well on its own as well. Certainly, if you're involved in search and rescue or disaster management, this book is a must-read. Even if you just work shifts, it will be of great interest. As a rapid overview of the current state of knowledge about fatigue, it is enlightening. The writing is a lttile flat, and the diagrams sometimes a bit difficult to figure out, but these shortcomings seem minor compared to the fact that it contains in succinct format the relevant research findings.Though there are some references, they are mostly to textbook chapters rather than original research -- but then this is not a research text, it is designed to get the research findings, and the lessons they teach, to the people who need to know. And at that goal, it succeeds well. Again, diclaimer -- the author is a friend, but I think my evaluation is as objective as I can make it. The book is available for $9.95 + $4.75 shipping and handling per box shipped, from Search Equipment Company at (800) 473-4901 (major credit cards accepted). "He who hesitates may know something the rest of you don't." --Mark Evans -- End -- X-cs: From: Self To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Archives Cc: Bernie Roche ,"Charles P. Kollar" Reply-to: kconover+@pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:20:37 We are trying to get automatic archiving set up for this list. No luck so far, but maybe in the future. For now, you can access quarterly ASCII archives of the list (just made from my email program, no guarantee of completeness) at: www.wemsi.org -- End -- X-cs: From: Self To: EMED List Subject: Fatigue Book ordering Cc: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu,Robert Koester ,Steve McConaughy <73764.3070@compuserve.com> Reply-to: kconover+@pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 15:09:41 Got several replies from those outside the U.S. who pointed out that 800 numbers aren't good unless you're in the U.S. I haven't been able to get through to Steve on the 800 number myself because his voice mailbox is always full -- so I don't have his non-toll number. But, here are other contact means for Search Equipment Co. to order the book: Steve McConaughy <73764.3070@compuserve.com> FAX: (804) 293-5502. "While I am asleep, I feel neither Hope nor Despair; I am free from Pain and insensible of Glory. Now Blessings light on him that first invented this same Sleep: It covers a Man all over, Thoughts and all, like a Cloak; 'tis Meat for the Hungry, Drink for he Thirsty, Heat for the Cold, and Cold for the Hot. 'Tis the current Coin that purchases all the Pleasures of the World cheap; and the Balance that sets the King and the Shepherd, the Fool and the Wise-man even." --Sancho Pança, to Don Quixote de la Mancha, in: Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra (translated from the Spanish by P. A. Motteux between 1700 and 1703), Don Quixote Part II (1615), XXXV: The Adventure of the Hogs. Everyman's Library edition, NY: Alfred A. Knopf , 1991, p. 505. (OK, this one is out of order, but I just ran across it as I was finishing reading Don Quixote at lunch today, and just _had_ to put it in right here.) -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:23:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from local (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.5/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID ; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:23:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:23:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:22:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.3) ID ; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:22:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rex.isdn.net (root@rex.isdn.net [198.79.88.2]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.3) ID for ; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:22:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host2.midsouth.net (host2.midsouth.net [207.65.92.2]) by rex.isdn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA13550 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:22:09 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME (207.65.92.109) by host2.midsouth.net (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.81) with SMTP id ; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:27:23 -0500 Message-ID: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Ralph A Brigham" Organization: ER - NCRC To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:21:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: W-EMED Search Equipment Company X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: b7d457edd92289538c3ef50ef02a8ebb X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Greetings - Steve McConaughy has a new E-mail address and a webpage. S&R EQUIP SAR_EQUIP@Compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/SAR_Equip I hope this data is of value - enjoy !! Ralph A Brigham (615) 906-9277 939 S Riverside Dr, Apt H-61 Clarksville TN 37040-3158 "The SUPPORT PERSONNEL are JUST as important as the rescuers at/on a mission." Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 13:11:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from local (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.5/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 13:11:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 13:11:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 13:10:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.3) ID ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 13:09:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from arl-img-6.compuserve.com (arl-img-6.compuserve.com [149.174.217.136]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.3) ID for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 13:09:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by arl-img-6.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.2) id NAA29889; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 13:08:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 13:07:42 -0400 From: Steve McConaughy Subject: W-EMED Fatigue Book ordering To: "INTERNET:kconover+@pitt.edu" Cc: "(unknown)" , EMED List Message-ID: <199707251307_MC2-1B93-F61C@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu id NAA17661 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 4ecd4e0b2e4faa2ca1f3e0e217c8266e >From Keith's Message: <<<<<<<<<<<<< I haven't been able to get through to Steve on the 800 number myself because his voice mailbox is always full -- so I don't have his non-toll number. But, here are other contact means for Search Equipment Co. to order the book: Steve McConaughy <73764.3070@compuserve.com> FAX: (804) 293-5502. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the update on the Fatigue book. I understand the frustration with folks not able to get hold of anyone here for the past several days. We got hit by lightning and our phones and computers have been out until hours ago. The problem is (mostly) fixed at this point and we have plenty of the books in stock to ship. Thanks for your persistence in trying to get hold of us! Any of the contact below points should now work !! Steve -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve McConaughy for Search Equipment Company Providing quality equipment for Search Teams everywhere P. O. Box 70626, Richmond Virginia, 23255 Phone: (804)967-9264 FAX: (804)967-9265 Toll Free in US (800) 473-4901 E-mail: SAR_Equip@compuserve.com Web Site: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/SAR_Equip (now includes on-line ordering and PICTURES !) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-cs: From: Self To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Ambu Perfit ACE Collars Cc: EMS-L@listserv.ACNS.NWU.EDU Reply-to: kconover+@pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 19:07:20 Just saw some information about the AMBU Perfit ACE adjustable adult c-collars. Looks like they would be ideal for wilderness use -- a single collar can fit any adult, folds flat and can be used for insulation under your butt just like a Stiffneck. http://www.ambuusa.com is their web site. Anyone using them who can provide comments pro or con? Thanks. -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:02:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from local (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.5/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:02:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:02:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:01:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.3) ID ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:00:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.3) ID for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:00:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.142.57.10.pitt.edu (ehdup-i-3.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.21.173]) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.6/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 21:54:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707260154.VAA23810@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Keith Conover, M.D." To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 21:54:09 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: W-EMED PETSAC Update X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 0301326377e71b607e0f0d44350b1a38 Another OCR scan in my attempt to keep the list up to date on the WMS PETSAC. This is the cover letter that came with the survey I previously emailed. Next message will include the notes from the April WMS PETSAC that I recently received. June 27, 1997 Dear Wilderness Medicine Educator, It hardly seems possible that my last update was written in January. At that point in time, the draft of the WFR was in a work-in-progress stage, and we were preparing for the February meeting in Steamboat Springs. Due to unforeseen circumstances, I was unable to travel to Steamboat for the meeting. In my absence at the Steamboat meeting, there were apparently questions raised about the progress of the PETSAC committee, specifically in respect to the WFR curriculum. I have been told by several reliable sources that an individual commented that he had paid "good money" to SOLO for a WFR curriculum and it was about time he saw some results. The implication of these comments was that SOLO had misappropriated significant amounts of money. From what I have heard and read, these remarks verged on the edge of slander. The attached summary of the meeting highlights this as a concern that came up during the meeting but does not attribute those comments to their owner. To address these allegations, I redirect everyone's attention to a letter I sent out on January 16, 1996 (prior to my official involvement with the Wilderness Medical Society's PETSAC group and prior to the conference in Big Sky) to the original fifteen agencies who participated in the curriculum exchange. In that letter I responded to several comments about the cost of the photocopying and mailing: Several people have asked if they could share in some of the expense of copying and mailing. The Wilderness Medicine Newsletter has been absorbing the cost thus far, but would willingly accept donations to cover this part of the expense. If each of the organizations chipped in $15.00, payable to the Wilderness Medicine Newsletter. it would be greatly appreciated. In response, I received three donations: $15 from Kelly Turner at Wilderness Facts, $15 from SOLO, and $20 from Carl Weil at Wilderness Medicine Outfitters. Mr. Weil's check was made payable to SOLO, but SOLO endorsed the check to the Wilderness Medicine Newsletter. This grand total of $50 barely covered the photocopying of all of those materials, and did not help defray any of the mailing expenses. However, in an effort to assuage the concerned individual's fears that the contributions were not spent in a sufficient and honorable manner, the money is being resumed to those individuals with this letter. If there is further concern, I would appreciate personal contact immediately. Since the time that I received this information, the range of my emotions and options to respond have tipped both sides of the scale. In the end, I realize that it was only one agency that espoused this unfounded fiduciary concern; thus, I have brought closure to this particular issue from my perspective. Unfortunately, I can't help but wonder about the future of this project considering some of the events of the past year. As I look ahead to the PETSAC meeting in Sun Valley, I need a reality check. WMS President, Dr. Paton, asked each of the society's committees to incorporate into their meeting agenda discussion of the following: 1. The mission, purpose and need for the committee. 2. A system of appointments and terms of service that will support the activity and vitality of the committee. 3. Suggestions for expanding the member involvement in WMS committees. With this in mind, I have been reevaluating my involvement with PETSAC. I was asked to participate because I am not only active in the pre-hospital wilderness medicine field, but also because I have been involved with this process since the conception of the idea out in Conway, Washington, and because I have open communication channels with the rest of the wilderness medicine education community. Throughout the process I have viewed myself as a resource and as a facilitator and have been happy to serve the interests of the wilderness medical educators in these capacities. If I am to truly represent what the "industry" wants, I need some reaffirmation of what that is. Many people have told me that we should just throw in the towel and chalk our involvement up to experience. Rather than try to recap conversations about this project, I am enclosing a short survey. Please take a few minutes to fill it out. Put your thoughts in writing and return them to me as soon as possible, obviously before the August 2nd conference in Sun Valley. I have dedicated an incredible amount of time and energy to this process over the past three years (this started in September of 1994). Both SOLO and the Wilderness Medicine Newsletter have donated time and money toward my continued participation. Without the commitment from the "industry," these efforts and resources are being wasted. So please, take the time to jot down your thoughts. Your input has been, and will continue to be, pivotal in the direction of the PETSAC project. Sincerely, Holly A. Weber Editor, Wilderness Medicine Newsletter SOLO Employee Mail: Fax: E-Mail: PO Box 3150 603-547-2310 solo@stonehearth.com Conway, New Hampshire 03818 encl. --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:02:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from local (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.5/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:02:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:02:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:01:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.3) ID ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:00:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.3) ID for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:00:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.142.57.10.pitt.edu (ehdup-i-3.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.21.173]) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.6/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 21:54:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707260154.VAA23806@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Keith Conover, M.D." To: solo@stonehearth.com Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 21:54:09 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: W-EMED WM Standardization Survey CC: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 7800633d902f09e64033ba010dd760eb I recently received a survey about the WMS Wilderness Medicine Standarization Process. As I'm trying to keep the list up to date on what's happening with the WMS PETSAC, I thought I'd post this survey to the list along with my answers. Wilderness Medicine Standardization Process - Survey IMPORTANT: Please return before July 31. 1997 > The Prehospital Emergency Training Standards and Accreditation > Committee was formed at the Second World Congress on Wilderness > Medicine in Aspen, Colorado, on August 10, 1995. What do you > understand their mission and goals to be? to provide standardization for WFR and WEMT training -- starting initially at the WFR standard scope of performance and standard training definition, then moving to program accreditation standards, then maybe to curriculum development -- and eventually doing the same for WEMT > Please rank the following priorities for PETSAC (1 being most > imperative, 8 being the least): > The development of standardized course terminology 1. > A system for accreditation of wilderness medicine schools 2. > A system of quality control for wilderness medicine instructors 4. > A standardized Wilderness First Aid curriculum 6. (I think others within WMS and ARC are already doing this) > A standardized Wilderness First Responder curriculum 3. > A standardized Wilderness EMT curriculum 5. > Updated and revised Practice Guidelines 7. (this is someone else's job within the WMS) > Other: > Are you comfortable with standardized curricula bearing the WMS > name, being made available to anyone who wants it without a system > of accreditation in place? No, but after seeing what happened to NASAR think it may be the lesser of the two evils. > Do you want to see this process continued? Yes > Please explain why or why not: Yes. Even if we just keep the major players meeting and talking, it's bound to have some benefit even if it doesn't meet its stated goals > Do you have any frustrations with the process to this point? No, not really -- but then WEMSI isn't involved at the WFA or WFR level and have been taking a back seat so far. > Name of person filing out this survey: Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP >Wilderness medicine affiliation: WMS, WEMSI, NCRC, ASRC, etc. > Are you willing to discuss this with PETSAC: absolutely. RETURN TO: Holly Weber, PO BOX 3150, Conway New Hampshire 038 78 (Fax: 603-447-2310) --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:02:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from local (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.5/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:02:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:02:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:01:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.3) ID ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:00:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.3) ID for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:00:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.142.57.10.pitt.edu (ehdup-i-3.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.21.173]) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.6/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 21:54:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707260154.VAA23809@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Keith Conover, M.D." To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 21:54:10 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: W-EMED WMS PETSAC update X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 94d48b5eb16bd8b0077de4d9c5ed3b76 Wilderness Medical Society P.O. Box 2463 Indianapolis, IN 46206 1-317-631-1745 http://www.a1.com/wms/ MEMO To: WMS Members Interested in PETSAC From: David VanDerWege Subject: Notes from Steamboat Meeting Date: April 29, 1997 Please find enclosed the notes from the open meeting on PETSAC held at the WMS winter meeting in Steamboat Springs, Colorado. This being my first meeting and not knowing names well, 1 have not tried to attribute statements to specific people except PETSAC Committee members. [ have also included the mailing list of people interested in PET SAC as was requested at that meeting. l his is the list we are maintaining at the WMS office. I took the liberty of including telephone numbers, as we have them, thinking it would help promote communications. Please lct us knew whether awe need to update information or make corrections. We are also happy to add people to the list if they are interested in the activities of PETSAC. The WMS Board will be having a conference call May 13. The PETSAC Committee's development of the curriculum and plans beyond this first step will be on the agenda. The Board will discuss key questions raised at the Steamboat meeting and the results of the discussion will be shared with the people on the PETSAC mailing list. ------- PETSAC Open Meeting Winter Wilderness Medicine Conference Steamboat Springs, CO Notes From Monday, February 3 The meeting was opened by Dr. Eric Weiss. Dr. Weiss explained that the main purpose of the meeting was to report on the progress of the PETSAC curriculum development committee. Dr. William Forgey, Holly Weber and Dr. Weiss have been working on the curriculum project. Unfortunately, Holly was unable to attend this meeting because of last minute unforeseen events at SOLO which were her responsibility to manage. Dr. Weiss explained that the curriculum project was started from the submissions of current educational providers. Pam Foyster worked to gather, collate and bring the submitted documents together into a single document. Holly Weber became the writer for the project with a projected first draft date of January 1. Holly, prior to this meeting, had communicated that the task and time required were greater than anticipated. Dr. Weiss expressed that it was unfortunate that Holly was unable to attend this meeting to describe what she had encountered and the problems she was experiencing. The question was asked: What is being worked on? Pam Foyster described that approximately fifteen organizations submitted curricula or documents. Dr. Weiss indicated that those organizations who submitted were sent copies of all of the documents received. Concern was expressed for the lack of information about the progress of the project. Dr. Forgey explained the writing concept the group created. If they split the writing work among themselves, they would come up with five very different documents. So to establish continuity, they agreed that Holly Weber would do the writing and they would review. Dr. Forgey went on to explain that prior to the summer annual meeting in Kananaskis the project was being worked on by the PETSAC committee of the WMS Board. Holly Weber was added to the project to bring the perspective of the education provider. Dr. Forgey clarified that PETSAC takes its charge from the WMS Board and brings its work back to the Board for review. A significant concern was expressed for the time frame that might be projected for teaching specific content. A specific question was: Are we still working on the original intent - to set a minimum standard? Currently the time (hours) committed to specific content area varies significantly. Dr. Forgey and Dr. Weiss described that Holly has been working from an hours and topics grid, which was developed from the curricula submitted. The questions was asked: How many topics? The answer was: we are not sure. Dr. Weiss acknowledged the concern of people for what are unknowns in the process. He also acknowledged that the curriculum was not ready for this meeting, as they had hoped, and therefore was just not available to see. However, the major part of the work is done. He stated that when the first draft of the curriculum is finished, as agreed upon by the committee, it will be distributed for review by those organizations that submitted curricula. David VanDerWege agreed to include with the notes from this meeting a list of the organizations who submitted curricula. Concern was expressed for consistency in terminology in the development of the curriculum. An example, "First Responder" is an established guideline. If we are going to use the term "Wilderness First Responder" the forty hour curriculum should be incorporated into our curriculum. We should be consistent with DOT topics and guidelines. It was suggested that WMS already defines the guidelines in its Practice Guidelines. Dr. Forgey questioned: Should we make a Wilderness First Responder curriculum? Dr. Weiss agreed that we should start wit,; guidelines already developed by other organizations. There needs to be national standards for training and instruction. States currently carry out the certification of individuals but there needs to be a national standard for training and education. WMS has said maybe we can help bring some focus to this and that is why PETSAC was developed. The need for national standards is illustrated in the need for recertification. One school is not going to recertify another school's graduate if they are unaware of the nature of the original training. It was suggested that guidelines should relate to the expectations of schools. Dr. Forgey stated that guidelines are not a curriculum. A curriculum is a much more defined and specific document. What we need to work toward is a common curriculum. It was commented that recertification and refreshers will have to be addressed in our process. Dr. Weiss stated that the current goal of a national curriculum endorsed by WMS is supported by Dr. Weiss, Holly Weber, Dr. Forgey and Pam Foyster in doing the writing Concern was expressed that some programs had sent money to SOLO to help finance the project and nothing has been seen as a result of that expenditure. Is there money remaining to support the completion of the project? Dr. Weiss committed to checking with Holly Weber to answer the question about any remaining funding. Dr. Forgey commented that curriculum development is a long and complex process. Dr. Weiss expressed that the authors wanted to have the draft in reasonable form before sending it out for review. A thank you was expressed to the writing committee for taking on the project. A concern was expressed that the "Wilderness First Responder" is not an EMT level training and it should remain accessible for people in many situations. With the discussion ranging widely, it was suggested that what was needed was a meeting or conference devoted to the exploration and discussion of certification and/or accreditation. A meeting could be held at an inexpensive site. It was suggested that someone might be willing to provide a site at cost. It was also suggested that if a budget was established, costs could be divided and shared. Dr. Weiss concluded the accreditation/certification discussion by projecting that he will bring to the WMS Board a proposal to clarify their position and commitment to accreditation/certification as a result of the process that has been started. It was suggested that an E-mail list could be helpful in the communications process. The meeting concluded by thanking everyone for coming and their support and understanding. --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:34:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from local (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.5/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:34:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:34:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:34:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.3) ID ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:33:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from server.tenforward (mail.tenforward.com [206.213.105.2]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.3) ID for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:33:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.213.105.156] by server.tenforward (SMTPD32-3.04) id A2B1697E00B8; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 19:36:33 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970725193254.006a54fc@tenforward.com> X-Sender: tates@tenforward.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 19:32:54 -0700 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: Tates Subject: Re: W-EMED Ambu Perfit ACE Collars In-Reply-To: <199707252307.TAA22086@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 294789d2e84b90c6f686910571774ae2 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I must have missed something there are 6 collars in the perfit set. Let me know I am very interested in a one-size collar. David Tate tates@tenforward.com At 07:07 PM 25/07/1997 +0000, you wrote: >Just saw some information about the AMBU Perfit ACE adjustable adult >c-collars. Looks like they would be ideal for wilderness use -- a >single collar can fit any adult, folds flat and can be used for >insulation under your butt just like a Stiffneck. > >http://www.ambuusa.com is their web site. > >Anyone using them who can provide comments pro or con? > >Thanks. > > >Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP (NSS 12893, WD4PSY) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBM9lh1WJeMal+NnPWEQKSsQCgjhlW7f+dqut6IJdj2vs793R+ipQAn11E 29dlz8eBVmXJiHPXw+Gq9ppJ =Rfto -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 09:29:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from local (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.5/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID ; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 09:29:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 09:29:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 09:29:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.3) ID ; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 09:28:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.tcn.net (root@titan.tcn.net [199.166.4.2]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.3) ID for ; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 09:28:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Pmontanus.interlog.com (PPPS37.tcn.net [206.221.245.37]) by titan.tcn.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA09626 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 09:37:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970726091617.00860230@titan.tcn.net> X-Sender: broche@titan.tcn.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 09:29:22 -0400 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: Bernie Roche Subject: Re: W-EMED Ambu Perfit ACE Collars Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 325ce100a909407e8dddb974f801ce34 X-PMFLAGS: 35127424 0 At 07:07 PM 7/25/97 +0000, you wrote: >Just saw some information about the AMBU Perfit ACE adjustable adult >c-collars. Looks like they would be ideal for wilderness use -- a >single collar can fit any adult, folds flat and can be used for >insulation under your butt just like a Stiffneck. > >http://www.ambuusa.com is their web site. > >Anyone using them who can provide comments pro or con? > >Thanks. Hi, Keith: From what I can see, this company offers a set of 6 (small-to-large) sizes of collars, not a "one-size-fits-all" collar. Take a look at http://www.ambuusa.com/perfit.html Best Wishes, Bernie Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 14:48:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from local (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.5/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID ; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 14:48:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 14:48:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 14:47:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.3) ID ; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 14:47:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.3) ID for ; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 14:46:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.142.57.10.pitt.edu (ehdup-e3-9.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.21.59]) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.6/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID ; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 14:43:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707261843.OAA04426@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Keith Conover, M.D." To: Bernie Roche , wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 14:43:34 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: W-EMED Ambu Perfit ACE Collars In-reply-to: <3.0.32.19970726091617.00860230@titan.tcn.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: aeb8235e0225c1edb624a90f0a529488 On 26 Jul 97 at 9:29, Bernie Roche wrote: > At 07:07 PM 7/25/97 +0000, you wrote: > >Just saw some information about the AMBU Perfit ACE adjustable adult > >c-collars. Looks like they would be ideal for wilderness use -- a > >single collar can fit any adult, folds flat and can be used for > >insulation under your butt just like a Stiffneck. > > > >http://www.ambuusa.com is their web site. > > > >Anyone using them who can provide comments pro or con? > > > >Thanks. > > Hi, Keith: > > From what I can see, this company offers a set of 6 > (small-to-large) > sizes of collars, not a "one-size-fits-all" collar. Take a look at > > http://www.ambuusa.com/perfit.html > > Best Wishes, > > Bernie Bernie, they make both a "PerFit" series and a "PerFit ACE" collar -- the former is a whole range of sizes, the latter a new version that is a single adjustable collar that fits all adult sizes. I put in a request at their web site and they sent me a new catalog with it listed on pp 16-17. But it says "call for price" rather than listing a price. And it says "4 standard adult sizes and 18 adjustable settings." "One Size Fits All Adults!" Guess I'll have to call them during business hours and see if I can get one to play with. --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from local (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.5/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:24:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:24:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:24:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.3) ID ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:19:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gate1.health.state.ny.us (gate.health.state.ny.us [192.135.176.62]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.3) ID for ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:18:18 -0400 (EDT) From: rrt01@health.state.ny.us Received: by gate1.health.state.ny.us id AA09589 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu); Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:18:14 -0400 Message-Id: <199707281318.AA09589@gate1.health.state.ny.us> Received: by gate1.health.state.ny.us (Internal Mail Agent-2); Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:18:14 -0400 Received: by gate1.health.state.ny.us (Internal Mail Agent-1); Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:18:14 -0400 Comments: Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X Date: Mon, 28 Jul 97 09:16:40 EDT Subject: Re: W-EMED Ambu Perfit ACE Collars In-Reply-To: note of 07/25/97 22:47 To: Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 759fc4cb695946bd6cbcaddccd6ddd11 X-PMFLAGS: 33554560 0 While I've only seen ads for the Ambu Perfit ACE collar, I have samples of 2 other adjustable C-collars on the market: the Stiffneck Select and the Sure-Lok Collar. The Siffneck Select covers the 4 standard Sitffneck adult sizes, NoNeck - Tall. The Sure-Lok collar has nine adjustment positions anteriorly and 3 positions posteriorly. I find both brands adequate, although each has its own advantages/disadvantages (IMHO). I'm told both collars are priced in the $12-16 range. When I first saw these collars, I was very excited about their potential in the wilderness setting, as well as the abilty to put a "one-size-fits-all" collar in my personal jump bag. BTW, The New York State Bureau of EMS has approved 1 adjustable C-collar (any brand) as an acceptable substitute for the 3 sizes adult collars required on all NYS-certified ambulances. Take Care... * Raymond R. Thielke, EMT/P, Sr EMS Rep * NYS Dept Of Health, Bureau of Emerg Med Svcs * 217 S. Salina St. E-mail: RRT01@health.state.ny.us * Syracuse, NY 13202 Phone# (315)426-7711 Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 17:47:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from local (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.5/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 17:46:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 17:46:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 17:46:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.5) ID ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 17:45:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.goodnet.com (mail.goodnet.com [207.98.129.2]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.5) ID for ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 17:45:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown (phx-ts18-12.goodnet.com [207.98.133.45]) by mail.goodnet.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id OAA12545; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 14:42:44 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <199707261843.OAA04426@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu> References: Conversation <3.0.32.19970726091617.00860230@titan.tcn.net> with last message <199707261843.OAA04426@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: "Wilderness Emergency Medicine News" , "Bernie Roche" , "Wilderness Emergency Medicine News" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Tim Kovacs" Subject: Re: W-EMED Ambu Perfit ACE Collars Date: Mon, 28 Jul 97 14:40:57 PDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 404e0577139f31c25414eb85819bd7c1 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 We have played with the Stiffneck Select in drills and at the MRA conference in Provo in June in field tests. They performed well, and the consensus was to use them in place of the specific sized stiffnecks. We did not try an Ambu Perfit (haven't seen one yet). Tim Kovacs, MRA PS to Keith Conover; Excellent work on the WEMT curriculum. It has good things for me to incorporate into the minimum guidelines for the Az Dept. of Health Services WEMT project I am co-leading. Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:23:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from local (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.5/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:23:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:23:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:22:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.3) ID ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:22:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from btiserv.btigate.com (btiserv.btigate.com [204.167.177.1]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.3) ID for ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:21:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from TODDPORT (bti5200-1-a11.btigate.com [204.167.177.119]) by btiserv.btigate.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA01095 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:21:43 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:21:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707281521.KAA01095@btiserv.btigate.com> X-Sender: tporter@mail.btigate.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: todd porter Subject: Re: W-EMED Ambu Perfit ACE Collars Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: c4c39b688b6f6a0df592de5e1d02e1c3 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 We started using the stiffneck select about a month ago and found that it really works well. We not only have to carry less in the ambulance where the room is critical, we also don't have to keep as many different types in inventory. Thanks, At 07:07 PM 7/25/97 +0000, you wrote: >Just saw some information about the AMBU Perfit ACE adjustable adult >c-collars. Looks like they would be ideal for wilderness use -- a >single collar can fit any adult, folds flat and can be used for >insulation under your butt just like a Stiffneck. > >http://www.ambuusa.com is their web site. > >Anyone using them who can provide comments pro or con? > >Thanks. > > >Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP (NSS 12893, WD4PSY) >http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover >- Information Systems Coordinator, Dept. of EM, Mercy Hospital >- Clinical Assistant Professor, Dept. of Emergency Medicine, > Univ. of Pittsburgh (EM Residency and Center for Emergency Medicine) >- Medical Director, Wilderness EMS Institute > (http://www.wemsi.org; for a WEMSI-sponsored list, send "subscribe > wilderness-emergency-medicine" to Majordomo@list.pitt.edu) >- Eastern Region, Natl. Cave Rescue Comm./Appalachian SAR Conf. >Do not reproduce without author's express permission. >To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" >as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu >Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > > Todd Porter, NREMT-P/Director Metro-Area Ambulance Service, Inc. PO Box 595 Mandan, ND 58554-0595 voice 701-255-0812 fax 701-255-7247 e-mail tporter@btigate.com Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 12:55:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from local (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.5/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 12:55:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 12:55:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 12:53:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.3) ID ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 12:53:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fh102.infi.net (fh102.infi.net [208.131.160.101]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.3) ID for ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 12:53:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bracer (dcp3-126.fay.infi.net [206.27.117.126]) by fh102.infi.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA10882; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 12:53:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33DCCDF1.58A50026@foto.infi.net> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 12:50:57 -0400 From: "Ronald J. Brace M.D." X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: W-EMED Rock Climb at WMS meeting X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------F7FDCC41F53C57F484B62706" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: c21c6559b0b1e26535499662ebbce3ef X-PMFLAGS: 570949760 0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------F7FDCC41F53C57F484B62706 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I will be at the WMS Meeting next week and wondering if any one with moderate rock-climbing experience (I climb to about 5.8 on lead) would be interested to a visit to City of Rocks on the free Wednesday? Contact me via e-mail or once at Sun Valley. I will have a car. Ron --------------F7FDCC41F53C57F484B62706 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Ronald J. Brace M.D. Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Ronald J. Brace M.D. n: Brace M.D.;Ronald J. org: Womack Army Medical Center adr: Department of Emergency Medicine;;(or) 261st ASMB, Delta Co.;Ft. Bragg;NC;28306;USA email;internet: bracer@foto.infi.net title: Education Coordinator and Staff Physician tel;work: 910-432-0301 tel;fax: 910-432-4750 (Work) tel;home: Listed note: BC EM Physician. x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: TRUE end: vcard --------------F7FDCC41F53C57F484B62706-- Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-cs: From: Self To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: (Fwd) RE: AMBU Perfit ACE Collars Reply-to: kconover+@pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 18:42:57 (forwarded with permission) ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: "Sponsler, Daniel" To: "'kconover+@pitt.edu'" Subject: RE: AMBU Perfit ACE Collars Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:11:45 -0500 I have seen these and talked with the reps about them. My concern was the posterior portion of the collar not being adjustable along with the anterior side. The rep I was talking with told me that they were already looking at a change in the design to address this. Other then that they would be goo for a wilderness application I think. I am not completely sold on the idea of replacing a full set of adult collars on an ambulance or rescue truck were you have the room to carry a set. Dan Sponsler Program Director Paramedicine A.A.S. Northwest Technical College - EGF East Grand Forks, MN sponsler@mail.ntc.mnscu.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 02:39:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from local (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.5/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID ; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 02:39:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 02:39:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 02:39:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.5) ID ; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 02:39:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.goodnet.com (mail.goodnet.com [207.98.129.2]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.5) ID for ; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 02:38:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PC_.goodnet.com (phx-ns42-7.goodnet.com [207.204.254.40]) by mail.goodnet.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id XAA22316; Sat, 2 Aug 1997 23:35:56 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <199708021713.NAA12518@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu> References: Conversation <199708021713.NAA12518@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu> with last message <199708021713.NAA12518@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu, wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Tim Kovacs" Subject: Re: W-EMED (Fwd) AMBU C-collar Date: Sat, 02 Aug 97 23:10:49 PDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: ff19ea2b2c49fb0cd254ea1e859cc940 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 The Stiffneck Select folds flat and works well, although I have not done a side-by-side with the ambu. Tim Kovacs, Mountain Rescue Assn Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-cs: From: Self To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: (Fwd) AMBU C-collar Reply-to: kconover+@pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 00:02:28 David said it was OK to forward this personal message, in which he make an interesting point -- the Ambu folds flat, important for packing into the backcountry. Anyone else played with any other adjustable collar that folds flat? ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: D.Moore%TCPetT4@tcpet.uscg.mil Subject: AMBU C-collar Date: 28 Jul 97 15:18:53 PST To: kconover+@pitt.edu Dr. Conover, My name is David Moore, I am an instructor with the US Coast Guard EMS School. I saw your post on the EMS-L list about the AMBU C-collar. I have been talking to a Rep. from AMBU about that collar and he stopped by and showed me a prototype. Very nice. We like it for the same reasons you were talking about, folds flat (all the other universal collars don't fold flat), and you only need one maybe 2 for a couple of patients. He said the production models are not available but should be soon. Anyway, if anyone sends you any info directly would you mind forwarding their response to me as I am also very interested in this. I will be watching the posts to see if anyone has anything to add. Thank you for your time, ASM2 David Moore, NREMT-P US Coast Guard Training Center EMS School Petaluma, CA 94952 (707)765-7528 po_d_moore@tcpet.uscg.mil -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 07:54:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from local (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.5/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID ; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 07:54:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 07:54:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 07:53:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.5) ID ; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 07:53:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com (emout04.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.95]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.5) ID for ; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 07:53:27 -0400 (EDT) From: TomwPM2PA@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout04.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id HAA28431 for wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 07:52:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 07:52:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970803075252_542197640@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED (Fwd) AMBU C-collar Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 280706fe482e10fc0c37c1c8d61f6135 X-PMFLAGS: 33554560 0 I, also, have not worked with the Ambu coller. The stiffneck collers due lay flat and I understand they are manufacturing a once size fits all (adults). In reality, the "no-neck" size stiffneck fits the great majority of patients. IMHO, Tom Watson EMT-P WEMT Wannabe Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-cs: From: Self To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: 1998 Wilderness Medical Society Meeting Reply-to: kconover+@pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 21:59:16 The 1998 Annual Scientific Conference will be held August 4-9 at Lake Placid, New York. I'm sitting in a planning meeting right now, and of interest to those on the list, the focus of this meeting will be medical care during search and rescue. It will include workshops and lectures relating to medical care during rope, mountain and cave rescue. The program is being designed to be attractive for physicians and SAR types from both the eastern half of North America and Europe, especially SAR team members from the NE part of North America. More details to follow. -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 16:15:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from local (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.5/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 16:15:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 16:15:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 16:14:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.5) ID ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 16:13:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from quint.somtel.com (Quint.somtel.com [206.139.114.2]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.5) ID for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 16:13:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from somtel.com.somtel.com (dialup-k-4.somtel.com [206.139.115.69]) by quint.somtel.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA23259 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 16:13:17 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970808200644.0067f7b8@somtel.com> X-Sender: jbender@somtel.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 16:06:44 -0400 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: James Bender Subject: Re: W-EMED Neuro exam of the stuporous patient in the wilderness Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 6b7c7151af6b6c7457052fa79524d5b3 X-PMFLAGS: 35127424 0 Keith, I think one of the most usefull items is the C-spine clearing card, laminated. Because one person can read of the steps while the other performs them. Also the state of maine has an additional course so EMT's can claear C-spine in the urban setting. I can get you an outline and the test if you want it. James. At 02:50 8/9/97 +0000, you wrote: >The WEMSI Wilderness EMT Curriculum emphasizes the role of a detailed >history and physical as the key to predicting problem during a long >evacuation to the road. Part of the training includes a more >detailed neurological exam than taught in EMT-Basic courses. >However, we want to expand the training to include more information >on how to conduct a neuro exam on a stuporous or semistuporous >patient. The WEMSI Curriculum already includes significant material >on performing and interpreting neurological exams. (If you want to >see what this is, check www.wemsi.org in about 2-3 weeks to download >a copy of the new WEMSI WEMT Practical Skills Stations Manual which >includes most of the details of what we include on neurological >exams.) > >What I'm looking for from the wilderness-emergency-meidicine and >emed-l lists are: > >1. general suggestions on what to include in the Lesson Plans about >the neuro exam of the stuporous patient. > >2. good references. > >In particular, for references, we want something that would be good >for WEMT students to go to if they want more information -- not >"Diagnosis of Stupor and Coma" but something that would be at an >appropriate level for a motivated EMT-Basic who's just completed a >WEMT course. > >Thanks for your help. > >--Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP > http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover >Do not reproduce without author's express permission. >To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" >as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu >Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-cs: From: Self To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Wilderness First Aid program/book Reply-to: kconover+@pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 23:08:56 List members -- there had been information here about a new wilderness first aid book and course that may help toward a national standard. You can check the archives at http:/www.wemsi.org if you missed these messages. The book is jointly sponsored by the Wilderness Medical Society and the National Safety Council, but (important clarification, especially since the NSC folder wrongly said different): the _course_ is entirely a NSC operation with no WMS involvement. They are now taking orders for the book, with delivery scheduled for October. There was a folder out at this years' annual WMS meeting, and the critical information is as follows: Wilderness First Aid: Emergency Care for Remote Settings ISBN 0763704075 350 pp cost: $15.00 U.S. ordering: 1-800-832-0034 to order via Visa/Mastercard, 8:30-5:00 M-f, or fax to 508-443-8000 24 hours a day, there will be small shipping charges, and sales tax for residents of MA, TX, and CA. (I guess international orders will have to deal with them via FAX) 20% discount if ordered by Aug 15. -- End -- X-cs: From: Self To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Neuro exam of the stuporous patient in the wilderness Cc: EMED List Reply-to: kconover+@pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 00:45:23 The WEMSI Wilderness EMT Curriculum emphasizes the role of a detailed history and physical as the key to predicting problem during a long evacuation to the road. Part of the training includes a more detailed neurological exam than taught in EMT-Basic courses. However, we want to expand the training to include more information on how to conduct a neuro exam on a stuporous or semistuporous patient. The WEMSI Curriculum already includes significant material on performing and interpreting neurological exams. (If you want to see what this is, check www.wemsi.org in about 2-3 weeks to download a copy of the new WEMSI WEMT Practical Skills Stations Manual which includes most of the details of what we include on neurological exams.) What I'm looking for from the wilderness-emergency-meidicine and emed-l lists are: 1. general suggestions on what to include in the Lesson Plans about the neuro exam of the stuporous patient. 2. good references. In particular, for references, we want something that would be good for WEMT students to go to if they want more information -- not "Diagnosis of Stupor and Coma" but something that would be at an appropriate level for a motivated EMT-Basic who's just completed a WEMT course. Thanks for your help. -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 22:11:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 22:11:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 22:11:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 22:10:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.5) ID ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 22:08:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.5) ID for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 22:08:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA29049 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 21:07:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from phi-pa2-22.ix.netcom.com(199.183.42.86) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id smaf21036; Sat Aug 9 20:46:03 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970809213416.006c72bc@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: bjburton@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 21:34:16 -0400 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: "Barry J. Burton" Subject: Re: W-EMED Neuro exam of the stuporous patient in the wilderness In-Reply-To: <199708081859.OAA26601@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 5812d20469cd7644956007db34f13d3e X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Keith.. Is there anything wrong with I have BEEN teacing here? I feel that the curriculum and study guide DOES need some good illustrations and explanation panels. Would receommend digging up Greg Henry's "Brief" ed neuro exam, and will also get Kip Wengers's Med student in coma lecture and ref's for you. Missed you in Hershey at PEHSC. Wish you were there (gg) 73 Cheers Barry At 02:50 AM 8/9/97 +0000, you wrote: >The WEMSI Wilderness EMT Curriculum emphasizes the role of a detailed >history and physical as the key to predicting problem during a long >evacuation to the road. Part of the training includes a more >detailed neurological exam than taught in EMT-Basic courses. >However, we want to expand the training to include more information >on how to conduct a neuro exam on a stuporous or semistuporous >patient. The WEMSI Curriculum already includes significant material >on performing and interpreting neurological exams. (If you want to >see what this is, check www.wemsi.org in about 2-3 weeks to download >a copy of the new WEMSI WEMT Practical Skills Stations Manual which >includes most of the details of what we include on neurological >exams.) > >What I'm looking for from the wilderness-emergency-meidicine and >emed-l lists are: > >1. general suggestions on what to include in the Lesson Plans about >the neuro exam of the stuporous patient. > >2. good references. > >In particular, for references, we want something that would be good >for WEMT students to go to if they want more information -- not >"Diagnosis of Stupor and Coma" but something that would be at an >appropriate level for a motivated EMT-Basic who's just completed a >WEMT course. > >Thanks for your help. > >--Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP > http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover >Do not reproduce without author's express permission. >To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" >as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu >Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 22:01:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 22:01:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 22:01:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 22:01:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.5) ID ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 21:57:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/8.8.6/cisls-7.0.1.5) ID for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 21:56:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.142.57.10.pitt.edu (ehdup-a3-13.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.20.63]) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.6/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 21:53:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708100153.VAA24444@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Keith Conover, M.D." To: James Bender , wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 09:56:46 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: W-EMED Neuro exam of the stuporous patient in the wildernes In-reply-to: <1.5.4.32.19970808200644.0067f7b8@somtel.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 32ece6edbcdf9b8c74eafad5ac03c060 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 On 8 Aug 97 at 16:06, James Bender wrote: > I think one of the most usefull items is the C-spine clearing card, > laminated. Because one person can read of the steps while the other Hm, I was actually talking about _neuro_ exams, not clearing the cervical spine. But regardless, your suggestion of having it all on a card so that one EMT can read and the other perform is probably a good idea for procedures that are uncommonly performed, or complex, or both -- such as clearing the cervical spine, and the neuro exam. The WEMSI card does have the neuro exam on the backside of the card, so I will take your suggestion to mean that whatever we come up with in the way of a simple neuro exam for stuporous patients, it should be on the card. Good idea. For those who don't have one of the WEMSI Reference Cards, the WEMSI WEMT Course Guide should be posted in Adobe PDF format at www.wemsi.org in the next couple of weeks, and includes the card as an appendix. --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-cs: From: Self To: EMED List Subject: netiquette Cc: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Reply-to: kconover+@pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 11:26:21 Recently I have had some (offline) discussions with members of both lists regarding netiquette. As a result of their suggestions, I am posting some information on how to learn about netiquette. The most critical thing to read is the dry but essential RFC 1855, which can be found on the net at: http://marketing.tenagra.com/rfc1855.html Netscape provides its own rules for newsgroups as part of the help file online: http://home.netscape.com/eng/mozilla/3.0/news/news2.html#netiquette There are a variety of entertaining and useful Web sites available, including the entire text of a commercially-published book on the subject: http://bookfair.com/Services/Albion/TOC0963702513.html http://www.sandybay.com/pc-web/netiquette.htm http://www.albion.com/netiquette/index.html The last also includes a test to assess _your_ knowledge of netiquette. Another entertaining suggestion: use any of the search engines on the Web (http://www.metacrawler.com/ is currently my favorite) and search for "Diary of an AOL User." There are several versions out there, all entertaining yet educational -- and probably the quickest way for someone new to the world of email and newsgroups to get the idea. Quotes from the entertaining and educational anarchist, Robert A. Heinlein: "......It is possible that the percentage of honest and competent whores is higher than that of plumbers and is much higher than that of lawyers....." "Any judge is a good judge when he knows he is being watched." "Every law ever written opened a new way to graft." -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 13:12:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 13:12:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 13:12:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 13:11:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.6/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 13:08:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.mc.net (root@mail.mc.net [206.138.8.4]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 13:07:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (mmmodem104.mc.net [206.138.15.113]) by mail.mc.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id MAA07030; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 12:08:31 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <33F0B480.7704@mc.net> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 12:07:44 -0700 From: "Scott A. Samuels" Organization: SR/DR '97 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-KIT (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu, SAR-DOGS@MAIL.EWORLD.COM Subject: W-EMED SR/DR '98 - Speakers, photos Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 920e6699025b5194024e4893e8e6cfd1 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 "Call For Abstracts and Photos!" Item 1: The "Search & Rescue/Disaster Response Conference and Expo" (SR/DR '98) returns to the Nashville Convention Center June 26-28, 1998. We are assembling the Conferences' educational sessions, and are asking for brief abstracts from persons interested in presenting. Due to the large contingent of Canine SAR volunteers and professionals (they made up 1/3 of our attendance)Canine Wilderness and Urban SAR sessions will account for a larger percentage of our sessions than they did this year. Our other educational tracks will include: -Collapsed Structure Rescue -High Angle Rescue -Confined Space Rescue -Special EMS Situations -Water/Ice Rescue/Recovery -Vehicle Extrication We are looking for "cutting edge" sessions featuring timely topics. Practical information our attendees can take home and use immediately. If you have one or more sessions you would be interested in presenting, please send us a brief abstract, along with two references where you have spoken before. If you would like further information before submitting your ideas, please call or Email at your convenience. Item 2: SR/DR is currently looking for photographs to include in the SR/DR '98 exhibitors prospectus and attendee brochure. If you would like to have your dog(s) photo in one or both publications, please send us a copy. If we use your photo, full credit will be given to you, your organization, and your dog! If you'd like the photo back, please include a self addressed stamped envelope. Deadlines: We need the photos by Labor day. We need your session abstracts by September 30. Thank you! Scott Samuels SR/DR '98 2413 W. Algonquin Rd Ste 411 Algonquin, IL. 60102 847.458.0420 fax 0421 Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:46:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:46:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:46:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:45:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.6/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:44:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aus-d.mp.campus.mci.net (aus-d.mp.campus.mci.net [208.140.84.24]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:44:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lizard (s18-pm16.snaustel.campus.mci.net [207.49.121.239]) by aus-d.mp.campus.mci.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA01566; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:41:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:41:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708152241.SAA01566@aus-d.mp.campus.mci.net> X-Sender: mbryant@wku.campus.mci.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: ozcavers@techpkwa2.curtin.edu.au, cavers@ditell.com, sar-l@islandnet.com, wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: mbryant@WKU.CAMPUS.MCI.NET (Mike Bryant) Subject: W-EMED Dogs and Divers 1997 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: a7af104066463e8e422e60f475956250 I would like to inform everyone of some classes for SAR personal happening in Kentucky. It is called Dogs And Divers 1997. It will be held on Sept 12-14, 1997 in Bowling Green Ky (Home of the Corvette) and will be sponsered by Dive Rescue Int., Search Equipment Co. and Barren River Area Search Dog Association. The classes will be Med Dive and Underwater Investigator under Dive Rescue Int and "A weekend of search and rescue dog training with Steve McConaughy" under BRASDA. Underwater Investigator This program is an extensive and comprehensive course which will prepare you to complete investigations involving weapons recovery, body recovery, vehicle and aircraft recovery and scuba fatalities. Included within the body of this course is specialized instruction in such areas as, preparing for court, professional law enforcement reporting procedures and other topics which will enable you to report to the appropriate authorities in a credible and professional manner. This course is taught entirely in the classroom. Rather than spend many hours at a dive site planning and preforming one or two underwater recovery/investigation missions, you will view over 1,200 slides, and many videotapes which will take you on site to many crime scenes, scuba fatalities, firearm recoveries. You will see what the investigators have seen, and you will learn to identify and locate evidence and artifacts left behind. You will actually experience what the investigators have done at the scene and during the follow-up investigation. There is no other course available in the wourld which carries with it the audio-visual component and the instructor-experience as this course. Your instructor for Underwater Investigator will be one of North America's foremost experts on underwater investigations and author of "The Encyclopedia of Underwater Investigations", Corporal Robert G. Teather. With over 25 years of experience in Police Investigation Diving and over 200 underwater recovery operations, Cpl. Robert Teather brings with him the experties to ensure the highest level of instruction and professionalism. Included in your tuition is "The Encyclopedia of Underwater Investigations", which will be used as the textbook for this course. The tools and tehniques you will gain in the three days of intensive training will enable you not only to investigate accurately and completely, but to report and prepare your evidence for court. Med Diver Med diver is an in-depth study of preventative and on-site emergency care for injured divers. This program is a must for any team interested in optimizing member safety. Skills learned can be utilized by non-medical personnel as well as the most experienced responder. The program is recommended for all emergency medical professionals, rescue, and dive team members. Information is provided which can be used in applying for continued education. The information is based on the U.S.D.O.T. outline for EMT's and paramedics. Inaddition to quality training, students receive a comprehensive 129 page manual. If you wish to recieve a registration form or need payment assistance for the Diver classes only, please call (800) 248-3483 Steve McConaughy will be teaching a course on Setting up and Evaluating a K-9 Team. Steve has been involved in Search and Rescue since 1978 and has participated in more than 200 searchs. Steve is experienced in USAR activities, having responded to the Armenian earthquake of 1988. Steve is a member of DOGS East and Virginna DES. Steve has conducted various types of classes throughtout the United States and bring a weath of information to our area. DAY AND NIGHT TIME FIELD WORK WILL BE DONE IN THIS CLASS. A multitude of topics will be included in the three full days of training. Every dog handler, wherther novice or experienced should go away with something new learned. Registration deadline is September 6, 1997. Cost of the class is $50.00. Class is non-refundable unless the class is cancelled. For a registration form send a SASE to: BRASDA P.O. Box 10231 Bowling Green, KY 42102-0231 or fill out a copy of the form below. Name __________________________________________ Address_________________________________________ City ___________________________________________ State____________________ Zip___________________ Home Phone (_____) _____________________________ Organization_____________________________________ Mailing Address__________________________________ _______________________________________________ Phone (_______) ____________________________ Signed _______________________________________ Will you be bringing your SAR dog ? YES____________ NO ________________ Would you or your organization like to be included in any future mailing for classes offered by BRASDA in the future ? YES ______________ NO ______________________ Registration deadline is Sept. 6, 1997. Cost of the class is $ 50.00. Class is non-refundable unless the class is cancelled. Accomodations may be made at the Holiday Inn, Bowling Green Kentucky by calling 502-781-1500. If any additional information is needed, please call 502-843-9747 or 502-781-3264. Please bring appropiate clothing for rain or cooler temperatures and a light source for night exercises. " With talent on loan from God" Mike Bryant Vicepresident, BRASDA PIO, TRACER Scanner/Senior Member, CAP PSD, DR1, Nitrox Diver Analyical Chemist mbryant@wku.campus.mci.net or mike.bryant@wku.edu Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-cs: From: Self To: Lombardo Palma Subject: Re: EMED-L Digest - 7 Aug 1997 to 8 Aug 1997 -Reply Cc: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Reply-to: kconover+@pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 12:04:56 Thanks, Lombardo. The GCS is certainly an appropriate tool for those who are comatose, but I was looking for something that provided more detail than the GCS, but that might be appropriate (and relatively easy) for prehospital providers. The CNS may indeed be the tool we're looking for, since it is validated. I'll get a copy of the article, and post a summary to the w-e-m list. For others on the list, I've copied the Medline information here: 1. Cote R, Battista RN, Wolfson C, et al. The Canadian Neurological Scale: validation and reliability assessment Neurology 1989; 39:638-43 The Canadian Neurological Scale (CNS) was designed to monitor mentation and motor functions in stroke patients. We assessed its validity and reliability on a group of 157 patients with a diagnosis of acute cerebrovascular accident. We determined validity by (1) correlating scale items and total score with the standard neurologic examination; (2) exploring the scale's predictive power with different end points at 6 months--the initial CNS was a significant predictor of outcome; (3) showing that the CNS had higher correlation coefficients with the initial neurologic examination than the Glasgow Coma Scale; and (4) assessing the responsiveness of the scale to change in the neurologic status of stroke patients. Interobserver reliability, measured by kappa statistics on each scale item, was good. Accordingly, we established the validity and reliability of the CNS for its use in clinical studies and in the care of stroke patients. Thanks. On 12 Aug 97 at 10:30, Lombardo Palma wrote: > Keith, > > I advocate the use of standardized scales such as the Glasgow Coma > Scale (GCS) for stuporous and comatous patients. If patients with > neuro deficits are alert or drowsy, they can be examined with the > Canadian Neurologic Scale (CNS). Both scales are short and easy to > complete and to teach. > > The Utah EMS system uses the GCS and I am trying to sell them on > adding the CNS. You can find references for the CNS in the May, > 1989 issue of Neurology. > > Best, > > lp > Lombardo F. Palma, MD, MSPH Office Ph: 801-566-7701 > 1847 W. 9000 S. Faxcimile: 801-566-7704 > West Jordan, UT 84088 E-mail: ldlpalma@ihc.com > -------------------------------------------------------- > > >>> On Sat, 9 Aug 1997 02:50:47 "Keith Conover, M.D." > wrote: > Subject: Neuro exam of the stuporous patient in the wilderness > > The WEMSI Wilderness EMT Curriculum emphasizes the role of a > detailed history and physical as the key to predicting problem > during a long evacuation to the road. Part of the training includes > a more detailed neurological exam than taught in EMT-Basic courses. > However, we want to expand the training to include more information > on how to conduct a neuro exam on a stuporous or semistuporous > patient. The WEMSI Curriculum already includes significant material > on performing and interpreting neurological exams. (If you want to > see what this is, check www.wemsi.org in about 2-3 weeks to download > a copy of the new WEMSI WEMT Practical Skills Stations Manual which > includes most of the details of what we include on neurological > exams.) > > What I'm looking for from the wilderness-emergency-meidicine and > emed-l lists are: > > 1. general suggestions on what to include in the Lesson Plans about > the neuro exam of the stuporous patient. > > 2. good references. > > In particular, for references, we want something that would be good > for WEMT students to go to if they want more information -- not > "Diagnosis of Stupor and Coma" but something that would be at an > appropriate level for a motivated EMT-Basic who's just completed a > WEMT course. > > Thanks for your help. > > --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP > http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover>>>> > -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:54:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:54:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:54:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:54:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.6/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:53:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aus-f.mp.campus.mci.net (aus-f.mp.campus.mci.net [208.140.84.26]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:53:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rons671.wku (s03-pm06.snaustel.campus.mci.net [207.49.120.176]) by aus-f.mp.campus.mci.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA09726 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:49:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970816154733.00680b24@wku.campus.mci.net> X-Sender: rons671@wku.campus.mci.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 10:47:33 -0500 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: Ron Sloss Subject: Re: W-EMED Dogs and Divers 1997 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 7be6a6ca3a37bebdf5c155054cc0d505 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Mike, looks good. Clear and simple should end the confusion. "May GOD stand between you and harm, in all the empty places you must walk." Ron Sloss, RN, BSN, EMTP, DMT President/Mission Coordinator BRASDA(Barren River Area Search Dog Association) S/M Civil Air Patrol, KY Wing, Sq 15057 Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-cs: From: Self To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: WEMT Lesson Plans available in pdf format Cc: EMED List Reply-to: kconover+@pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 10:52:04 Just noting an addition to the WEMSI Web Page -- we have put up Adobe Acrobat files of some of our Wilderness EMT Lesson Plans. You can now dowload these Lesson Plans and print off on your own printer just like as if you'd photocopied them. Sorry there isn't a complete Wilderness EMT Curriculum there yet, but check back over the upcoming months of 1997 for additions, and soon you'll be able to collect the entire set . Here is what we say about them on the Web Page: WEMSI is currently revising the format for the WEMT Lesson Plans, and will be releasing updates of these (somewhat outdated) Lesson Plans over the next several months along with new Lesson Plans for the rest of the WEMT Curriculum. You might find these Lesson Plans useful for designing and providing continuing education sessions to members of a SAR team or similar organizations. Feel free to use this material as you wish, consistent with the copyright notice: "This Lesson Plan was created and edited by members of a Project Task Group, and approved by the Editorial Board, of the ASRC--CEM WEMSI. It may be reproduced by any means, without written permission, if it is reproduced in whole, including this copyright notice. It may be used by any person for any use, public, private, or commercial. The WEMSI, its Task Group, Editorial Board, and Staff have attempted to assure that all material herein is accurate, but can accept no responsibility for its use. All care rendered by WEMTs must be at the direction of a licensed physician and according to applicable laws and regulations." Comments and suggestions for improvement always welcome. Look for the new WEMSI WEMT Course Guide on the Web Page in the next couple of weeks. -- End -- X-cs: From: Self To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: (Fwd) Re: W-EMED (Fwd) AMBU C-collar In reply to 52_542197640 Reply-to: kconover+@pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 17:18:37 ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: D.Moore%TCPetT4@tcpet.uscg.mil I have not actually used any of the universal collars yet but I have seen the Stiffneck and yes it does lay flat except for the chin piece which sticks up about 1 inch. This makes it hard to pack in a pocket where they slide in, like the Thomas Pack. The Ambu one is the only one I have seen that lays totally flat. -- End -- X-cs: From: Self To: JSilver374@aol.com,wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Mountaineering Oriented First Aid Reply-to: kconover+@pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 22:13:31 On 24 Aug 97 at 19:22, JSilver374@aol.com wrote: > Hi all, > > I was speaking with a guy from my hiking club who told of a program > he says is given by American Red Cross called Mountaineering > Oriented First Aid (MOFA). He tells me he took it some 4 years ago > thru The Mountaineers based in Seattle. > > Has anyone ever heard of it and give me a brief synopsis? > > Thanks, > Jonathan Silver, WEMT > Highland Park, NJ Jonathon, this is a class made up by the Seattle area Red Cross, not national, and The Mountaineers. It has been going for about 30 years, and is based on ARC Standard First Aid, and also on the classic small red-and-white book Mountaineering First Aid first edited by Dick Mitchell. If you want to go to Seattle it's a good course, or the Mountaineers will be happy to sell you a copy of the book. However, the Red Cross has the new When Care is Delayed module for their first aid courses and you might want to contact your local chapter to get a copy of that addendum to the standard first aid courses, too. -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Sun, 24 Aug 1997 19:29:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Sun, 24 Aug 1997 19:29:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Sun, 24 Aug 1997 19:29:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 24 Aug 1997 19:27:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Sun, 24 Aug 1997 19:25:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout07.mail.aol.com (emout07.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.22]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Sun, 24 Aug 1997 19:25:08 -0400 (EDT) From: JSilver374@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout07.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id TAA17619 for wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu; Sun, 24 Aug 1997 19:22:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 19:22:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970824192157_622574075@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: W-EMED Mountaineering Oriented First Aid Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 9e09a5b4a8c703476c5b2a12b217cef6 X-PMFLAGS: 34603136 0 Hi all, I was speaking with a guy from my hiking club who told of a program he says is given by American Red Cross called Mountaineering Oriented First Aid (MOFA). He tells me he took it some 4 years ago thru The Mountaineers based in Seattle. Has anyone ever heard of it and give me a brief synopsis? Thanks, Jonathan Silver, WEMT Highland Park, NJ Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Sun, 24 Aug 1997 20:41:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Sun, 24 Aug 1997 20:41:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Sun, 24 Aug 1997 20:41:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 24 Aug 1997 20:40:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Sun, 24 Aug 1997 20:38:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from server.tenforward (mail.tenforward.com [206.213.105.2]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Sun, 24 Aug 1997 20:38:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.213.105.136] by server.tenforward (SMTPD32-3.04) id A4312B56020E; Sun, 24 Aug 1997 17:39:13 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970824173445.0069bf18@mail.tenforward.com> X-Sender: tates@mail.tenforward.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 17:34:45 -0700 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: tates Subject: Re: W-EMED Mountaineering Oriented First Aid In-Reply-To: <970824192157_622574075@emout07.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: f13966a5c3d42d1a200740dc74d115ee X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 We had a member of our group go through it at about that time he said it was like the old style first aid courses lots of improvising that sort of thing. I think we tried to bring it here and couldn't find an instructor but can't remeber for sure. David At 07:22 PM 24/08/1997 -0400, you wrote: >Hi all, > >I was speaking with a guy from my hiking club who told of a program he says >is given by American Red Cross called Mountaineering Oriented First Aid >(MOFA). He tells me he took it some 4 years ago thru The Mountaineers based >in Seattle. > >Has anyone ever heard of it and give me a brief synopsis? > >Thanks, >Jonathan Silver, WEMT >Highland Park, NJ >Do not reproduce without author's express permission. >To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" >as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu >Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Sat, 30 Aug 1997 01:01:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Sat, 30 Aug 1997 01:01:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Sat, 30 Aug 1997 01:01:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sat, 30 Aug 1997 01:00:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Sat, 30 Aug 1997 00:57:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.4]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Sat, 30 Aug 1997 00:57:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA10838; Fri, 29 Aug 1997 23:56:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199708300456.XAA10838@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com> Received: from tuc-az2-07.ix.netcom.com(204.32.173.71) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id smaa10817; Fri Aug 29 23:56:47 1997 From: "Joe Gladstone" To: , Cc: "Scott Major" Subject: Re: W-EMED Mountaineering Oriented First Aid Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 21:51:47 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 8b13f66dd9f31eb413209cb737c336be X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 I taught a similar course for the ARC in Tacoma Washington. The Seattle course is offered by the Mountaineers in Seattle and is designed for their members. The course focuses on mountaineering emergencies expected in the Cascade Range, especially Mount Rainier (@ 14,411 ft). They are an ARC authorized provider for the CPR components of their course. The Tacoma chapter also offers this course. The "When Help is Delayed" is actually a short 4-hour stand-alone course which teaches the student safety considerations, injury care skills, plus survival and rescue information in addition to standard first-aid. The Tacoma-Pierce County chapter (TPC) of the ARC offers Wilderness Oriented First-Aid (WOFA). This is a 24-hour course developed by the TPC and is targeted for citizen responders, i.e. hikers, campers, hunters, community groups, etc. The course teaches the students injury prevention and how to make first-aid and rescue decisions when EMS is unavailable. The course has four nights of classwork (lecture and skills) and one day of stressful field exercises using volunteer victims and moulage. "When Help is Delayed" basically elaborates on the "emergency action steps": check, call, and care. WOFA teaches the 7-Steps (from the Mountaineers): taking charge (leadership), safety, urgent rescue & FA, victim protection, injury assessment, planning and plan execution. The field day ties together the didactic work with scenarios that are designed to place the students under stress. During these scenarios the students are expected to apply advanced first-aid skills and utilize the 7-Steps to carry them through each situation. We have had positive response from our students, who feel that the course has given them the confidence to handle emergency situations when EMS isn't available, including urban disasters. Tacoma is earthquake country, of course. For information on either of these courses, you can contact Marty Mullins @ the TPC @ (253) 597-7303. I'm now planning a similar program in Tucson. Joe Gladstone, EMT-B Health and Safety Services Instructor/Instructor-Trainer American Red Cross Southern Arizona Chapter ------------ > From: Keith Conover, M.D. > To: JSilver374@aol.com; wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > Subject: Re: W-EMED Mountaineering Oriented First Aid > Date: Sunday, August 24, 1997 4:16 PM > > On 24 Aug 97 at 19:22, JSilver374@aol.com wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > I was speaking with a guy from my hiking club who told of a program > > he says is given by American Red Cross called Mountaineering > > Oriented First Aid (MOFA). He tells me he took it some 4 years ago > > thru The Mountaineers based in Seattle. > > > > Has anyone ever heard of it and give me a brief synopsis? > > > > Thanks, > > Jonathan Silver, WEMT > > Highland Park, NJ > > Jonathon, this is a class made up by the Seattle area Red Cross, not > national, and The Mountaineers. It has been going for about 30 > years, and is based on ARC Standard First Aid, and also on the > classic small red-and-white book Mountaineering First Aid first > edited by Dick Mitchell. If you want to go to Seattle it's a good > course, or the Mountaineers will be happy to sell you a copy of the > book. > > However, the Red Cross has the new When Care is Delayed module for > their first aid courses and you might want to contact your local > chapter to get a copy of that addendum to the standard first aid > courses, too. > > --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP > http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. > To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" > as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu > Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Sat, 30 Aug 1997 16:12:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Sat, 30 Aug 1997 16:12:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Sat, 30 Aug 1997 16:12:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sat, 30 Aug 1997 16:11:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Sat, 30 Aug 1997 16:09:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.mc.net (root@mail.mc.net [206.138.8.4]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Sat, 30 Aug 1997 16:09:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (mmmodem79.mc.net [206.138.15.88]) by mail.mc.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with SMTP id PAA04082 for ; Sat, 30 Aug 1997 15:09:35 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <340899C7.3892@mc.net> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 15:08:07 -0700 From: "Scott A. Samuels" Organization: SR/DR '97 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-KIT (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: W-EMED Address Change Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: f2049accc6425dfaf5edbedb4ec311d0 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Good Afternoon. If you'd like to reach the "Search & Rescue/Disaster Response" Conference and Expo (SR/DR '98), please try our new Email address: srdr11@aol.com And remember!: 6/26-28/98 Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-cs: From: Self To: Patton M Turner ,wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu, pmturner@mindspring.com Subject: Re: question on diarrhea treatment Cc: EMED List Reply-to: kconover+@pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:53:55 On 2 Jul 97 at 18:34, Patton M Turner wrote: > > > A long time ago, Keith Conover, M.D. wrote: > > > > It's like the (now-pretty-much-discarded) idea that Lomotil will slow > > > > down your invasive diarrhea at the cost of making you more likely to > > be sicker later. If I'm coming down off a peak with an incoming > > storm, or working my way through a crawlway in a cave -- I don't > > _care_ if I'll be sicker later, give me the Lomotil! > > Could you please elaborate a bit. > Sorry for the delay, Pat, I've been in Idaho and England and Ireland (all wilderness EMS-related, of course) and am just now getting around to answering this. The recommendations for Lomotil, a much older medication than Imodium but probably about the same in effect, were based on rather unscientific case reports of people with invasive diarrhea (dysentery) with blood or mucus (pus) in the diarrheal bowel movements. They got worse after taking Lomotil -- but may have gotten worse even if they hadn't taken the Lomotil. So they said not to take Lomotil if you had invasive diarrhea, and this got passed on and cast in concrete, repeated from one textbook and review article to another with no more investigation. But when the Imodium people did their studies, there was no real danger in people with invasive diarrhea -- and (unlike some drug company studies) this has been confirmed in independent studies. Many of us suspect that the same results would come from similar studies of Lomotil if done with proper controls. Don't have all the references handy, I'm traveling (currently en route from Manchester to Dublin, but here are a couple of relevant reference citations from my database on the laptop: Anonymous Advice for travelers: travelers' diarrhea Med Lett Drugs Ther 1992; 34:41-42 Taylor DN, Sanchez JL, Candler W, et al. Treatment of travelers' diarrhea: ciprofloxacin plus loperamide compared with ciprofloxacin Ann Intern Med 1991; 114:731-734 "It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail." -- Gore Vidal -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 06:49:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 06:49:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 06:49:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 06:47:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 06:45:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout05.mail.aol.com (emout05.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.96]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 06:45:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Caverbru@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout05.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id GAA04838 for wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 06:44:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 06:44:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970909064441_691937449@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED WEMSI WEB SITE REPORT Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: c59350af9eef9c527d1f5e85d9e6c8a8 Status: U So what is the current correct address for the website? Bru Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:34:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:34:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:34:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:32:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:28:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailhub.dartmouth.edu (mailhub.dartmouth.edu [129.170.16.6]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:27:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dasher.Dartmouth.EDU (dasher.dartmouth.edu [129.170.208.6]) by mailhub.dartmouth.edu (8.8.7+DND/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA20658 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:27:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-id: <10383069@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Date: 11 Sep 97 16:27:53 EDT From: Matthew.F.Russell@dartmouth.edu (Matthew F Russell) Subject: W-EMED Vacuum Splints To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: b42addff3e69bce270b1a1f54227e6d9 Status: U My search and rescue team is evaluating the use of Vacuum splints in conjunction with our litters. I was wondering what experiences/comments people may have about the use of such splints for SAR. Specifically, I'm interested in the following: - Comments on their utility in the SAR environment (e.g., weight, durability in outdoor environments) - Recommendation of specific models to consider or avoid - Has anyone encountered compatability problems between vaccum splints and Stokes (basket) or Junkin litters? I would appreciate any and all comments or suggestions. Thank you, Matthew Russell matthew.f.russell@dartmouth.edu Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:10:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:10:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:10:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:09:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:07:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailhub.dartmouth.edu (mailhub.dartmouth.edu [129.170.16.6]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:07:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dasher.Dartmouth.EDU (dasher.dartmouth.edu [129.170.208.6]) by mailhub.dartmouth.edu (8.8.7+DND/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA13221 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:07:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-id: <10386013@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Date: 11 Sep 97 20:07:30 EDT From: Matthew.F.Russell@dartmouth.edu (Matthew F Russell) Subject: Re: W-EMED Vacuum Splints To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 4244107bdb7244f7040d181ee92b3c63 Status: U Thanks! (Especially the tip on the duct tape!) Do you have any comments or suggestions on models or manufacturers? (What model do you have, and would you recommend it?) thanks again, Matthew Russell Matthew.f.russell@dartmouth.edu Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:58:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:58:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:58:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:57:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:55:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from italy.it.earthlink.net (italy-c.it.earthlink.net [204.250.46.18]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:55:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from daves-home (ip209.las-vegas5.nevada.pub-ip.psi.net [38.29.1.209]) by italy.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA10725 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:55:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <34187898.F3554674@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:02:48 -0700 From: David Lehman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Vacuum Splints X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <10383069@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 29b3594667abda5fd15a8a3638f3d78a Status: U Vacuum splints are a key piece of equipment for our team. We carry a full body splint in our "Evac-Pack" for patient evacuations. The splints also allow a good deal of insulation when transporting patients. Their weight has not been a problem when you consider that you have much heavier pieces of equipment such as ropes and technical gear. These splints have proven their worth to us over and over again. Important note: ALWAYS carry duct tape in case of leaks! David Lehman, MICP Marin County Sheriff's Department Search and Rescue http://www.marin.org/npo/search/ Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 01:20:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 01:19:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 01:19:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 01:18:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 01:16:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.ecentral.com (ns.ecentral.com [206.64.70.1]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 01:16:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Default (ppp94.ecentral.com [206.64.70.94]) by www.ecentral.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA05602 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 23:16:22 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 23:16:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199709120516.XAA05602@www.ecentral.com> X-Sender: hmpaul@ecentral.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: "Howard M. Paul" Subject: Re: W-EMED Vacuum Splints Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 9ed004fe1b07661e82550c450b94c5af Status: U At 04:27 PM 9/11/97 EDT, you wrote: >My search and rescue team is evaluating the use of Vacuum splints in >conjunction with our litters. I was wondering what experiences/comments people >may have about the use of such splints for SAR. We have a complete compliment of vacuum splints: the "full body," the arm, leg and "pedi-board" sizes as well. We use the MDI brand, which was purchased from the original Swedish manufacturer about 5 years ago. I recommend this brand. As in with most products in the USA, the "copycat" knock-offs are cheaper, but usually of inferior quality. The weight is negligible, considering their advantages. Other than the obvious medical advantage, the common comment we hear (from injured parties and "practice" victims) is how comfortable they are. We have used them in our wire-basket (Stokes type) litter, as well as our solid plastic basket litters. The do absorb all available space, but really pose no problems. Key point w/the full body model: take care to learn how to correctly mold the C-spine area while evacuating the air. Second point: Ensure a pump makes it to the patient, as well as the splint! MDI's storage/carry cases are so tight it is difficult to place a pump in the bag. We have a laminated card attached to the handle (like a baggage ID tag); on one side it reads in big letters "Remember Pump." You can avoid buying both the "leg" and "pedi-board" as they are nearly identical in size. One will do the trick. ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| H o w a r d M. P a u l VP, Public Affairs Mgr., Colorado SAR Board EMS Director, Alpine Rescue Team, Evergreen, Colo. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- "If you don't care where you are, you can't be lost." -- anon. |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||| Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:37:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:36:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:36:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:36:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:33:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gate1.health.state.ny.us (gate.health.state.ny.us [192.135.176.62]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:33:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by gate1.health.state.ny.us id AA22733 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu); Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:32:46 -0400 Message-Id: <199709151832.AA22733@gate1.health.state.ny.us> Received: by gate1.health.state.ny.us (Internal Mail Agent-2); Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:32:46 -0400 Received: by gate1.health.state.ny.us (Internal Mail Agent-1); Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:32:46 -0400 Comments: Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X From: Subject: W-EMED Vacuum Splints To: Date: 13 Sep 97 02:07 EDT Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: d370c02766e983711affc9d9b177426f Status: U Vacuum splints do not "tighten" when the vacuum is applied, they merely become rigid. Descending from elevation would simply cause the splint to become more rigid. Take Care... * Raymond R. Thielke, EMT/P, Sr EMS Rep * NYS Dept Of Health, Bureau of Emerg Med Svcs * 217 S. Salina St. E-mail: RRT01@health.state.ny.us * Syracuse, NY 13202 Phone# (315)426-7711 ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In-Reply-To: <10386013@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 01:46:27 -0500 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: "Steven D. Pirie" Subject: W-EMED Vacuum Splints Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Matthew and list, With respect to vacuum splints is there the same concern with respect to air-evac / altitude changes as with air splints? I know with an air splint, that with an increase in altitude (such as an air-evac) the air splint will become more sung around the extremity (causing possible circulation problems). With a vacuum splint if you decrease the surrounding air pressure (elevation increase) will the splint loosen off? If you descend someone down a mountain (with an increase in surrounding air pressure) will the vacuum splint become tighter? Having never played with one of these tools I would be interested in knowing. Thanks in advance, Steven ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- OCdt Steven D. Pirie, BScN(c) Nursing Officer (Land) University of Windsor Canadian Forces Medical Service ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 19:33:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 19:33:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 19:33:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 19:32:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 19:29:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.ecentral.com (ns.ecentral.com [206.64.70.1]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 19:29:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Default (ppp68.ecentral.com [206.64.70.68]) by www.ecentral.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA19984 for ; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 17:28:51 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 17:28:51 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199709132328.RAA19984@www.ecentral.com> X-Sender: hmpaul@ecentral.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: "Howard M. Paul" Subject: Re: W-EMED Vacuum Splints Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: fbc45e699259f43f4885723a4890b380 Status: U We have never experienced this problem, although purely in theory it would occur. Remember that when the air is evacuated, the splint is shaped around the plastic beads in the splint, then around the patient. Perhaps someone with experience with a longer descent (3,000'?) could let us know if they noticed it over the greater barometric pressure increase. At 01:46 AM 9/14/97 -0500, you wrote: >Matthew and list, > >With respect to vacuum splints is there the same concern with respect to >air-evac / altitude changes as with air splints? ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| H o w a r d M. P a u l VP, Public Affairs Mgr., Colorado SAR Board EMS Director, Alpine Rescue Team, Evergreen, Colo. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- "If you don't care where you are, you can't be lost." -- anon. |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||| Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 01:55:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 01:55:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 01:55:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 01:54:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 01:50:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from naps.uwindsor.ca (dns.uwindsor.ca [137.207.232.1]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 01:50:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: naps: Host server.campus.uwindsor.ca claimed to be server.uwindsor.ca Received: from [137.207.2.45] (c1s1m10.student.uwindsor.ca [137.207.2.45]) by server.uwindsor.ca (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id BAA29967 for ; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 01:49:03 -0400 X-Sender: pirie1@server.uwindsor.ca (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <10386013@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 01:46:27 -0500 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: "Steven D. Pirie" Subject: W-EMED Vacuum Splints Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 868a1c9cc235551dbc833e0bbca73cdf Status: U Matthew and list, With respect to vacuum splints is there the same concern with respect to air-evac / altitude changes as with air splints? I know with an air splint, that with an increase in altitude (such as an air-evac) the air splint will become more sung around the extremity (causing possible circulation problems). With a vacuum splint if you decrease the surrounding air pressure (elevation increase) will the splint loosen off? If you descend someone down a mountain (with an increase in surrounding air pressure) will the vacuum splint become tighter? Having never played with one of these tools I would be interested in knowing. Thanks in advance, Steven ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- OCdt Steven D. Pirie, BScN(c) Nursing Officer (Land) University of Windsor Canadian Forces Medical Service ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:12:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:12:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:11:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:06:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.goodnet.com (mail.goodnet.com [207.98.129.2]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:06:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PC_.goodnet.com (phx-ns32-1.goodnet.com [207.98.134.226]) by mail.goodnet.com (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA27840 for ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 09:03:51 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <10383069@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> References: Conversation <10383069@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> with last message <10383069@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Tim Kovacs" Subject: Re: W-EMED Vacuum Splints Date: Sun, 14 Sep 97 08:33:58 PDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 52996ae99580ced10bbd43baa0343c39 Status: U The MRA has done some recent field testing (individual teams and at field conferences) of the 3 full body vacuum splints and has found great favor in the European Germa, well made in the U.S. under the name of MDI. It is coincidentally the least expensive and does very well in a variety of desert, snow, ice and vertical environments. Durability has been excellent. We stay away from the old split leg stokes litters, or we remove the leg dividers. Using the splints in litters has not been a problem so long as we use protection (padding or a blanket) between the splint and chicken wire. My friend, Ken Phillips, Chief SAR Ranger at Grand Canyon Park SAR likes the MDI best, too. Finally, Dr. Bill Clem, MD, FACEP, medical director of the MRA has been doing extensive study of Fulll Body Vacuum splints and may be another resource, although his conclusions have been the same. I have travelled with him and Dr. Ken Zafren, MD, FACEP (Denali Ntl Park, MRA, Anchorage) as a representative of the US to the IKAR (International Commission for Alpine Rescue) where we have had breakouts on this subject witht the europeans. Bill is working on some adaptations to vacuum mattresses for more carry-ability and built-in hypothermia protection. I hope this helps you. We are all about to leave for IKAR in Italy (20th-6th). Bill is bclem@msn.com Ken is zafren@corecom.net Best wishes, Tim Kovacs, Vice Pres. Field Ops Leader Mountain Rescue Association tkovacs@goodnet.com Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:17:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:17:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:17:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:15:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:12:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.goodnet.com (mail.goodnet.com [207.98.129.2]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:12:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PC_.goodnet.com (phx-ns32-1.goodnet.com [207.98.134.226]) by mail.goodnet.com (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA28468; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 09:10:25 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970712091154.006b9ed0@mail.tenforward.com> References: Conversation <10383069@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> with last message <3.0.2.32.19970712091154.006b9ed0@mail.tenforward.com> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu, wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Tim Kovacs" Subject: Re: W-EMED Vacuum Splints Date: Sun, 14 Sep 97 08:40:31 PDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 8ff213cd3076558c50cf7520147f0ed7 Status: U PS on vaccuum mattresses. They do not yet have widespread favor to be used as the single rigid device in a bauman or jenny type helo short haul bag, so you should still use a rigid board or in a litter before you place it in a non rigid helicopter short haul bag or cargo net with a person in it. It may collapse under that kind of pressure. And the small pump can be used, but it has received many four letter field comments as it takes longer and promotes more lactic acidosis in rescuers' arms than the larger pump. I echo all of Howard Paul's comments (Hi Howard!). Tim Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:29:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:29:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:29:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:27:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:24:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.goodnet.com (mail.goodnet.com [207.98.129.2]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:24:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PC_.goodnet.com (phx-ns32-1.goodnet.com [207.98.134.226]) by mail.goodnet.com (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA00044; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 09:21:39 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Conversation <10386013@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> with last message X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu, wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Tim Kovacs" Subject: Re: W-EMED Vacuum Splints Date: Sun, 14 Sep 97 08:51:45 PDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 2a614327359db5fc09ac74683a9f56fc Status: U Steven Pine's comments are appropriate with regard to air pressure at flight altitudes and must be compensated for, although, in reverse, since these are vacuum versus air filled.. Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: D.Moore%TCPetT4@tcpet.uscg.mil Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID for ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:28:31 -0400 (EDT) From: D.Moore%TCPetT4@tcpet.uscg.mil Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:27:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:27:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:26:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from iserver.tcpet.uscg.mil (iserver.tcpet.uscg.mil [198.31.4.3]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:26:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.tcpet.uscg.mil by iserver.tcpet.uscg.mil (8.6.10/1.37/tcpet.uscg.mil-btos) id KAA14513; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 10:26:36 -0700 Received: From TCPetI1 by mail.tcpet.uscg.mil with InterMail (5.2 MIME) Id PetT4-123914@mail.tcpet.uscg.mil ; 14 Sep 97 10:23:04 PST Message-Id: Subject: W-EMED Vacuum Splints In reply to 000010383069 Date: 14 Sep 97 10:23:21 PST To: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: ca910e8dd67c7773020cad0de7b381bb Status: U I have some limited experience with vacuum splints and have found several unfavorable characteristics. My experience has been evaluating them for use in Coast Guard SAR helicopters. One, they are not heavy but much larger than other products that do the job (SAM splints, cardboard, etc.), this is important when space is critical. They are also not as rugged as other products. Yes you can patch a hole with duct tape but then that requires constant monitoring as it will slowly lose air. Also what do you do if you split the seam of a vacuum splint. This has happened to our training models and yes, they are the cheap ones. I have not seen the MDI ones except for the ads, but they do look more rugged. I hope this helps. ASM2 David Moore USCG Training Center EMS School Petaluma, CA -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:36:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:36:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:36:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:34:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.tenforward.com (mail.tenforward.com [206.213.105.2]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:31:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.213.105.136] by mail.tenforward.com (SMTPD32-3.04) id A1A3C74E00BC; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 09:32:35 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970914092851.006ab2e4@mail.tenforward.com> X-Sender: tates@mail.tenforward.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 09:28:51 -0700 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: tates Subject: Re: W-EMED Vacuum Splints (pressure change) In-Reply-To: <199709132328.RAA19984@www.ecentral.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: d49e166d1cca1c68c7ee04cfc651782b Status: U My guess is that the opposite effect would be true for vacuum splints. The higher you go the looser it will be. If somebody has access to a medflight helo ask them what happens. This isn't a problem for most of what we do in wilderness SAR unless a flight out is going to occur and even then going down is usually the case. David At 05:28 PM 13/09/1997 -0600, you wrote: >We have never experienced this problem, although purely in theory it would >occur. Remember that when the air is evacuated, the splint is shaped around >the plastic beads in the splint, then around the patient. > >Perhaps someone with experience with a longer descent (3,000'?) could let us >know if they noticed it over the greater barometric pressure increase. > >At 01:46 AM 9/14/97 -0500, you wrote: >>Matthew and list, >> >>With respect to vacuum splints is there the same concern with respect to >>air-evac / altitude changes as with air splints? > >||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| >H o w a r d M. P a u l >VP, Public Affairs Mgr., Colorado SAR Board >EMS Director, Alpine Rescue Team, Evergreen, Colo. >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--------- >"If you don't care where you are, you can't be lost." -- anon. >|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| >||||||||||||||||||| > >Do not reproduce without author's express permission. >To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" >as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu >Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 17:20:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 17:20:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 17:20:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 17:19:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 17:16:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brickbat8.mindspring.com (brickbat8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.11]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 17:16:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (user-38lca8u.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.41.30]) by brickbat8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA11318 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 17:16:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970915171608.47e7f73e@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: pmturner@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 17:16:08 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: Patton Turner Subject: Re: W-EMED Vacuum Splints In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970712091154.006b9ed0@mail.tenforward.com> References: <10383069@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 710670a369a4e4bbb426e4e21b44ba9e Status: U At 09:11 AM 7/12/97 -0700, you wrote: >The local Ski Team uses one of the Vacuum Backboards and they like it. We >use prosplints and SAM splints because of lightness etc. The ones that I >have seen seem to be quite heavy and the pump awkward but I haven't looked >into them in the last couple of years. There is a team that uses polymer? >(looks like fiberglass) casting and then the ER cuts the person out at the >hospital. They like it and say that it only takes a few minutes to harden >and is very stable. What do you think of the prosplint vs air splints? This is assuming the splints are not used over wide altitude variations. A friend in CAP is looking at both, and while the prosplint seems better, it is 4X the price. Keith mentioned use of the casting material, but his suggestion was to use it to form a splint (either flat or a U shape that would support both sides ) and than use ace bandages to attach to to the extremity to reduce problems from edema. Sounds line a no brainer, but I'd never heard of anyone doing it before. Pat Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:19:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:19:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:19:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:17:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:15:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:15:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.142.57.10.pitt.edu (ehdup-b1-5.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.20.75]) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.7/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:04:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709161204.IAA26089@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Keith Conover, M.D." To: Patton M Turner , wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu, pmturner@mindspring.com Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:03:35 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: W-EMED Re: question on diarrhea treatment CC: EMED List References: <199607272003.QAA16005@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 3d17f8a148732eb52017e1233bece464 On 2 Jul 97 at 18:34, Patton M Turner wrote: > > > A long time ago, Keith Conover, M.D. wrote: > > > > It's like the (now-pretty-much-discarded) idea that Lomotil will slow > > > > down your invasive diarrhea at the cost of making you more likely to > > be sicker later. If I'm coming down off a peak with an incoming > > storm, or working my way through a crawlway in a cave -- I don't > > _care_ if I'll be sicker later, give me the Lomotil! > > Could you please elaborate a bit. > Sorry for the delay, Pat, I've been in Idaho and England and Ireland (all wilderness EMS-related, of course) and am just now getting around to answering this. The recommendations for Lomotil, a much older medication than Imodium but probably about the same in effect, were based on rather unscientific case reports of people with invasive diarrhea (dysentery) with blood or mucus (pus) in the diarrheal bowel movements. They got worse after taking Lomotil -- but may have gotten worse even if they hadn't taken the Lomotil. So they said not to take Lomotil if you had invasive diarrhea, and this got passed on and cast in concrete, repeated from one textbook and review article to another with no more investigation. But when the Imodium people did their studies, there was no real danger in people with invasive diarrhea -- and (unlike some drug company studies) this has been confirmed in independent studies. Many of us suspect that the same results would come from similar studies of Lomotil if done with proper controls. Don't have all the references handy, I'm traveling (currently en route from Manchester to Dublin, but here are a couple of relevant reference citations from my database on the laptop: Anonymous Advice for travelers: travelers' diarrhea Med Lett Drugs Ther 1992; 34:41-42 Taylor DN, Sanchez JL, Candler W, et al. Treatment of travelers' diarrhea: ciprofloxacin plus loperamide compared with ciprofloxacin Ann Intern Med 1991; 114:731-734 "It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail." -- Gore Vidal --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:32:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:32:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:32:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:30:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:27:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from macs.mxim.com (macs.mxim.com [204.17.143.130]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:27:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by macs.mxim.com (8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA15012 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:27:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709161827.LAA15012@macs.mxim.com> X-Authentication-Warning: macs.mxim.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Water Purification for the Outdoors In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:18:49 EDT." <199709161512.LAA01095@mag1.magmacom.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:27:39 PDT From: Hal Lillywhite Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 93fd85a3f077e74dec5a27e3ad8568ea >I am presently engaged in a search for authoritative references >related to the science of water purification for the outdoors. Try going to deja news and doing a search on water purification. Look in rec.backcountry for an FAQ by Bill Tuthill and Alan Dove. I'm not sure this is exactly what you want byt should be a good start. Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:17:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:17:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:17:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:16:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:11:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fcgnet.com (root@KITE.FCGNET.COM [199.196.33.22]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:11:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fcgmail5.fcgnet.com by fcgnet.com via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI.AUTO) for id LAA10064; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:35:52 -0700 Received: by fcgmail5.fcgnet.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BCC291.5F3D4A70@fcgmail5.fcgnet.com>; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:12:08 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Kern, Mark" To: "'wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu'" Subject: RE: W-EMED Water Purification for the Outdoors Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:12:06 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 8822ba2492a60ccec017011305b894fc Your best bet on micro organism eradication is heating the water to the proper temperature for the correct amount of time (does not necessarily need to be boiled, just pasteurized at 150F degrees) Backpacking Solar ovens are great at this, but you can build a solar pasturizer if you don't have the oven. You would want a filter after the pasteurization to filter out the heavy metals and sediment that is present usually in North American water. You have to be careful of chemical pollutants like fertilizer and paints that are also found in North American water also. No filter or heating strategy will remove all chemical pollutants from industrial waste, so pick your water hole carefully >-----Original Message----- >From: cc913@freenet.carleton.ca [SMTP:cc913@freenet.carleton.ca] >Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 1997 8:19 AM >To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu >Subject: W-EMED Water Purification for the Outdoors > >I am presently engaged in a search for authoritative references related to >the science of water purification for the outdoors. > >I have, of course, seen all of the stuff in the standard first aid texts on >the relative advantages of iodine (in various forms), chlorine (in various >forms), and filters. However, I would like to go back to the original >research literature and find out what all of this advice is based on. I >have an unfounded suspicion that there is very little actual research, but >that there is much opinion based on this little research - on the other >hand, I would be gratified to find out that the scientific basis for all of >this advice is simply very well known. (I am a physicist/mathematician >rather than a microbiologist). > >In any case, I would be very appreciative of any and all references that >anyone can give me on the subject of water purification methods suitable for >people travelling in the backcountry of North America (first priority) and >the rest of the world (very second priority). The pollutants of interest >are viral, bacterial, and parasitical disease carriers. > >Thanks very much for your help. When I get together a good reference list, >I will make it available. > > >Cheers Langley > > >"Civilization advances by extending the number of important operations >which we can peform without thinking about them." >A.N. Whitehead. > > > >Do not reproduce without author's express permission. >To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" >as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu >Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:07:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:07:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:05:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:01:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from quint.somtel.com (Quint.somtel.com [206.139.114.2]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:01:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from somtel.com.somtel.com (dialup-k-1.somtel.com [206.139.115.66]) by quint.somtel.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA00672 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:01:09 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970916195847.0067a9a4@somtel.com> X-Sender: jbender@somtel.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:58:47 -0400 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: James Bender Subject: Re: W-EMED Vacuum Splints Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 77733d926e70c9a81bf60af39b7e4d20 Hi Matt, We use all kinds of Vacuume splints at our rescue service. We like the full body splint because it comes in its own backpack and is light. We have no problems with it and the stokes. Pts prefere it for long transports because it is comfortable. I give it a thumbs up in use, even though they can be pricy. But I know a dealer who can cut you a great deal. James At 16:27 9/11/97 EDT, you wrote: >My search and rescue team is evaluating the use of Vacuum splints in >conjunction with our litters. I was wondering what experiences/comments people >may have about the use of such splints for SAR. Specifically, I'm interested >in the following: > >- Comments on their utility in the SAR environment > (e.g., weight, durability in outdoor environments) >- Recommendation of specific models to consider or avoid >- Has anyone encountered compatability problems between vaccum splints and >Stokes (basket) or Junkin litters? > >I would appreciate any and all comments or suggestions. > >Thank you, >Matthew Russell >matthew.f.russell@dartmouth.edu >Do not reproduce without author's express permission. >To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" >as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu >Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 03:17:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 03:13:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 03:13:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 03:12:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 03:09:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ganymede.connectexpress.com (root@www.connectexpress.com [208.218.86.6]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 03:09:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (ppp69.connectexpress.net [208.218.86.69]) by ganymede.connectexpress.com (8.7.3/Spam_kills) with SMTP id HAA29615 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:09:01 GMT Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970917071056.0067a1c8@connectexpress.com> X-Sender: summit@connectexpress.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 00:10:56 -0700 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: Percival Subject: Re: W-EMED Water Purification for the Outdoors Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 99d7e4bcc2540d7a6b4d31c68b3a3e48 I think you'll have a hard time finding any real research articles on the subject (peer reviewed journals) but any basic microbiology text or biochemistry text should help you out. Here are a few things to consider: Water purification at a biological level will require either filtering the organism out by size or destroying the organism by heat or chemicals. Filtering water depends a lot on what sized particles it will filter out. Parasites (usually Protista), their eggs and larva can range between 20 microns to 1 micron in diameter. Giardia lamblia trophozoites are 9 to 12 microns long by 5 to 15 microns wide. Their cysts are 8 to 12 microns long by 7 to 10 microns wide. Bacteria can range from 5 microns (Bacillus) to .3 microns (Rickettsia). Most commonly found water spoilage bacteria come from feces containing Enterobacteriaceae genera such as Escherichia, Shigella, Salmonella, Yersinia, and Enterobacter. Viruses are extremely small ranging from 300 nm (Poxviruses) to 25 nm (Picornaviruses). I have seen filters ranging from 1 micron to .2 microns which would remove most any protozoan and bacteria (at .3 microns down). The viruses are still in the water. Some filters also use iodine or chlorine in an attempt to remove the viruses. Depending on the concentration of the halide and the viral count the amount of contact between the two may or may not be sufficient to kill the viral contaminants. Another thing to consider is how many viable virions have passed through the filter and if that amount is enough to be considered infectious. I don't know about you but instead of trying to figure this out, and risk it I would much rather add a little iodine to my water or boil it for a few minutes. The heat denatures the proteins present in the organism. This destroys both the organism and any extracellular toxins present produced by the organism. Boiling water (100 deg C. or 212 deg F.) for a few minutes will do the trick, realistically a few seconds would probably do the job but the 15 to 30 minutes some people suggest is overkill. The halides: chlorine, Iodine, fluoride, bromide, are all very reactive compounds and will interfere quickly with metabolic and anabolic processes but needs more time (15minutes to and hour or more) to sanitize the water. This depends on the concentration of the solution, you don't want it too strong or it'll be just as toxic to you as the contaminants. The treatment of water shouldn't necessarily be any different if you are in North America or anywhere else in the world. What you need to consider is what potential contaminants might be in the water. Are you in a populated area, drinking out of a large slow moving river or lake, or is the water glacier run off? Heat and Chemicals will kill anything, filters will not. Some spore forming bacteria such as Clostridium or Bacillus will be killed in the boiling process, but some spores can survive to form new colonies when conditions are better (dangers of canning). This is not a problem with wilderness drinking water though. One thing to consider in third world countries is that just by walking barefoot or swimming in water, or bysitting in geothermal pools are common ways of obtaining a new parasite in your system. I hope this was of some help, Bret Percival bret@gocougs.wsu.edu ref: Murray, Patrick R., et al.:Medical Microbiology second ed. 1994 Mosby Pub. At 11:18 AM 9/16/97 -0400, you wrote: >I am presently engaged in a search for authoritative references related to >the science of water purification for the outdoors. > >I have, of course, seen all of the stuff in the standard first aid texts on >the relative advantages of iodine (in various forms), chlorine (in various >forms), and filters. However, I would like to go back to the original >research literature and find out what all of this advice is based on. I >have an unfounded suspicion that there is very little actual research, but >that there is much opinion based on this little research - on the other >hand, I would be gratified to find out that the scientific basis for all of >this advice is simply very well known. (I am a physicist/mathematician >rather than a microbiologist). > >In any case, I would be very appreciative of any and all references that >anyone can give me on the subject of water purification methods suitable for >people travelling in the backcountry of North America (first priority) and >the rest of the world (very second priority). The pollutants of interest >are viral, bacterial, and parasitical disease carriers. > >Thanks very much for your help. When I get together a good reference list, >I will make it available. > > >Cheers Langley > > >"Civilization advances by extending the number of important operations >which we can peform without thinking about them." >A.N. Whitehead. > > > >Do not reproduce without author's express permission. >To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" >as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu >Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > > Bret Percival bret@gocougs.wsu.edu Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:26:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:26:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:26:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:25:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:22:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gate1.health.state.ny.us (gate.health.state.ny.us [192.135.176.62]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:22:40 -0400 (EDT) From: rrt01@health.state.ny.us Received: by gate1.health.state.ny.us id AA04913 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu); Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:22:40 -0400 Message-Id: <199709171322.AA04913@gate1.health.state.ny.us> Received: by gate1.health.state.ny.us (Internal Mail Agent-2); Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:22:40 -0400 Received: by gate1.health.state.ny.us (Internal Mail Agent-1); Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:22:40 -0400 Comments: Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X Date: Wed, 17 Sep 97 09:20:38 EDT Subject: W-EMED water purification To: Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: df7e25cd87e04db8f129b080f2bcc809 X-PMFLAGS: 33554560 0 Has anyone heard of using grapefruit extract to purify water? I'm going to Ghana, Togo & Benin next month and a friend said that this is what she's been using. She's hasn't been sick after multiple trips there, but I'd like some "expert" opinions since I've never seen this method suggested. Thx in advance for your help... * Raymond R. Thielke, EMT/P, Sr EMS Rep * NYS Dept Of Health, Bureau of Emerg Med Svcs * 217 S. Salina St. E-mail: RRT01@health.state.ny.us * Syracuse, NY 13202 Phone# (315)426-7711 Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:46:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:46:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:46:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:45:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:42:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gw.bbt.com (gw.bbt.com [192.154.90.1]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:42:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gw.bbt.com (8.8.0/8.7.3) id IAA08072 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:42:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wrath.bbt.com(192.154.83.58) by gw.bbt.com via smap (3.2) id xma008052; Wed, 17 Sep 97 08:42:07 -0400 Received: from mckinley (mckinley [192.154.84.246]) by wrath-ne.bbt.com (8.8.0/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA00619 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:40:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <341FD015.6B6C@bbt.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:41:57 -0400 From: Mike Claes Organization: BroadBand Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Water Purification for the Outdoors References: <199709161512.LAA01095@mag1.magmacom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 75bdeaf2d2e3f8f4ba57e1d957bb4f97 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Langley R. Muir wrote: > > I am presently engaged in a search for authoritative references related to > the science of water purification for the outdoors. > The CDC has a few good articles in its archives. (http://www.cdc.gov) Select the search option. I've found it helps to search for the disease or parisite your are interested in ie. giardia rather than a broad term such as "water quality". There is also some information on Campmor's homepage http://www.campmor.com/water.filters/water.filters.index.html If nothing else, maybe you can use the reference information to track down some of the real research papers. Hope this helps -Mike Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:59:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:58:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:58:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:57:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:52:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.tcn.net (titan.tcn.net [199.166.4.2]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:52:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Pmontanus.interlog.com (PPPS60.tcn.net [206.221.245.60]) by titan.tcn.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA14255 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:02:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970917145247.0087aec0@titan.tcn.net> X-Sender: broche@titan.tcn.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:52:51 -0400 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: Bernie Roche Subject: Re: W-EMED WEMSI WEB SITE REPORT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 6dd4adc70601339a10cfd0fa84fb1e25 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 At 05:48 PM 16/09/97 -0400, you wrote: >Bernie, > >Thankx for the info. Do you get or can you get info about what parts of >the site are hit? It might give us some idea of where it's best to put in >time. Hi, Don: As a Senior Staff Member, you can access the stats directly through the Senior Staff Lounge on our web site. For a year now, I have been trying to get ANYONE to write an informal, "How I spent my Summer Vacation"-style article for the web site, describing what it's like to attend a WEMSI course. With no luck. I believe the web site should be a major part of our efforts to attract students, but I guess no other share this opinion. At least, not enough to contribute an article. While the stats are helpful in telling us which pages are "hit", if we don't have informative material there in the first place, the stats are meaningless. I have lots of pics available to illustrate such an article. If you'd like to write one, I'll be glad to assist you. I think it would greatly improve our web site and increase out enrolment. Best Wishes, Bernie Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:23:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:23:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:23:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:21:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:17:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanshark.lanminds.com (lanshark.lanminds.com [140.174.208.11]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:17:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [208.1.127.140] (hat-ppp6.lanminds.com [208.1.127.116]) by lanshark.lanminds.com (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id OAA14679 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:14:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:14:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tmcguire@pop.lanminds.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: TMcGuire@LanMinds.Com (Thomas J. McGuire) Subject: Re: W-EMED Water Purification for the Outdoors Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 8680cb8a016d5905e3b8ad6eb2c902c2 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 At 11.18 16.9.97, Langley R. Muir wrote: >I am presently engaged in a search for authoritative references related to >the science of water purification for the outdoors. >...I would like to go back to the original >research literature... Try Howard Backer's "Field Water Disinfection" chapter in Auerbach's "Wilderness Medicine (Mosby, 1995). About 30 pp of text and 233 references (have fun!). Fascinating and detailed reading re the bugs and prevention. Throrough discussion of available filters. "Of the 1700 million square miles of water on earth,less than 0.05% is potable." Drink up, Tom ***************************************** Thomas J. McGuire (TMcGuire@LanMinds.com) Chabot College Paramedic Program Berkeley Fire Department (California) ***************************************** Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:23:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:23:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:23:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:21:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:17:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanshark.lanminds.com (lanshark.lanminds.com [140.174.208.11]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:17:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [208.1.127.140] (hat-ppp6.lanminds.com [208.1.127.116]) by lanshark.lanminds.com (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id OAA14687 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:14:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:14:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tmcguire@pop.lanminds.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: TMcGuire@LanMinds.Com (Thomas J. McGuire) Subject: Re: W-EMED water purification Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 10c198d8392ea7b19da247c52dfc5b23 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 At 9.20 17.9.97, rrt01@health.state.ny.us wrote: >Has anyone heard of using grapefruit extract to purify water? I'm going to >Ghana, Togo & Benin next month and a friend said that this is what she's been >using. She's hasn't been sick after multiple trips there... The Auerbach text I mentioned says "Traveler's Friend" contains citrus extract. "Company sponsored data are convincing for antimicrobial and antiviral activity...not tested against Giardia... (no refs). Tom ***************************************** Thomas J. McGuire (TMcGuire@LanMinds.com) Chabot College Paramedic Program Berkeley Fire Department (California) ***************************************** Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:16:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:15:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:15:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:15:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:11:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ganymede.connectexpress.com (root@www.connectexpress.com [208.218.86.6]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:11:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (ppp225.connectexpress.net [208.218.86.225]) by ganymede.connectexpress.com (8.7.3/Spam_kills) with SMTP id WAA14496 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:11:35 GMT Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970917221331.00664390@connectexpress.com> X-Sender: summit@connectexpress.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:13:31 -0700 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: Percival Subject: Re: W-EMED water purification Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: c9199bcf367a18a8d41aae372d13c71e X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 The Grapefruit extract may lower the pH of the water enough to kill of any pH sensitive contaminants but it seems kind of risky to me. Bret Percival bret@gocougs.wsu.edu At 09:20 AM 9/17/97 EDT, you wrote: > >Has anyone heard of using grapefruit extract to purify water? I'm going to >Ghana, Togo & Benin next month and a friend said that this is what she's been >using. She's hasn't been sick after multiple trips there, but I'd like some >"expert" opinions since I've never seen this method suggested. > >Thx in advance for your help... > >* Raymond R. Thielke, EMT/P, Sr EMS Rep >* NYS Dept Of Health, Bureau of Emerg Med Svcs >* 217 S. Salina St. E-mail: RRT01@health.state.ny.us >* Syracuse, NY 13202 Phone# (315)426-7711 >Do not reproduce without author's express permission. >To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" >as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu >Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > > Bret Percival bret@gocougs.wsu.edu Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:24:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:24:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:05:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:01:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:01:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.142.57.10.cis.pitt.edu (ehdup-k-10.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.21.220]) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.7/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:58:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:00:18 -0400 Message-ID: <01BCC3A4.52BB7100.rnr@med.pitt.edu> From: Ron Roth To: "'wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu'" Subject: RE: W-EMED Air search and motion sickness Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:57:17 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 77abcf99470380b4870f92ecaa5d5af6 X-PMFLAGS: 33554560 0 I found that taking over the counter Bonnine (Meclizine) the same as Antivert in the am before flying on a medical helicopter helped greatly. It does make you drowsy. On cruises, I'd take a dose a night time only. Once you get sick, the party is over. Don't use the patch, there is a risk of a very bad psychiatric reaction. Good luck. Ron Roth, MD FACEP Email rnr@med.pitt.edu University of Pittsburgh Phone 412-647-1101 230 McKee Place # 400 Fax 412-647-1111 Pittsburgh, PA 15213 -----Original Message----- From: Howard M. Paul [SMTP:hmpaul@ecentral.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 1997 11:26 AM To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: W-EMED Air search and motion sickness I hope this is not too far off-topic! Are the various over-the-counter meds for motion sickness sufficient for prophylaxis when planning to fly for air search (helo or fixed-wing). If so, is one recommended over the other (oral vs. patch, etc.)? Last spring I went up in an Army UH-60 Blackhawk and spent more time with my eyes closed than open! (Admittedly, it was at 12,000' to 14,500' with a *real good* pilot.) I may have the opportunity this winter to do some aerial surveys of our avalanche zones, and want to be as comfortable as possible... . . . . p l e a s e ! ! Thanks for listening (reading?). Howard | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | H o w a r d M. P a u l VP, Public Affairs Mgr., Colorado SAR Board EMS Director, Alpine Rescue Team, Evergreen, Colo. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- --------- "If you don't care where you are, you can't be lost." -- anon. | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:55:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:54:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:54:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:53:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:51:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brickbat9.mindspring.com (brickbat9.mindspring.com [207.69.200.12]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:51:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (user-38lcae6.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.41.198]) by brickbat9.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA25865 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:51:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970918200723.09e762be@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: pmturner@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:07:23 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: Patton Turner Subject: Re: W-EMED Water Purification for the Outdoors In-Reply-To: <199709161512.LAA01095@mag1.magmacom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 8489635262ddd87d94de99d3cdde2c9e X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 At 11:18 AM 9/16/97 -0400, Langley R. Muir wrote: >I am presently engaged in a search for authoritative references related to >the science of water purification for the outdoors. > >I have, of course, seen all of the stuff in the standard first aid texts on >the relative advantages of iodine (in various forms), chlorine (in various >forms), and filters. However, I would like to go back to the original >research literature and find out what all of this advice is based on. I >have an unfounded suspicion that there is very little actual research, but >that there is much opinion based on this little research - on the other >hand, I would be gratified to find out that the scientific basis for all of >this advice is simply very well known. (I am a physicist/mathematician >rather than a microbiologist). The best information on wilderness water disinfection in Backer's chapter is Auerbach's "Wilderness Medicine-Management of Wilderness and Enviromental medicine" It does contain a bibliography. After that I would check out the following texts for more depth. A database search on the Journal of the American Water Works Association, the American Journal of Public Health and the Journal of Wilderness Medicine would turn up a lot of primary sources if you want to go to that extent. 1)Engineering in Emergencies published by Intermediate Technology Publications 2)Waterlines magazine by the same publisher Both cover field water treatment geared towards relief workers in Africa. Waterlines has a bit more broad focus. The later has published articles on inovative techniques like solar photoxidative disinfection. 3) Chemical and Nonchemical Disenfection by Cheremisinoff, Cheremisinoff, and Trattner, Published by Ann Arbor Science. Sugested mainly for it's treatment of reverse osmosis. 4) Civil Engineering Handbook, edited by Chen. Published by CRC Should be available in any library. Good coverage of chlorine and activated charcoal chemistry. 5) New Concepts in Water Purification by Culp and Culp. Two paragraphs on silver's use in water treatment 6) Handbook of Public Water Systems by Culp, Wesner, and Culp. Limited coverage of non-chlorine water disinfection such as silver, iodine, potassium permanganate, bromine, ozone, UV light, hydrogen peroxide, and insoluble contact disinfectants. FWIW, I've found no significant errors, other than the ommision of cryptosporida, in Wilkerson's Medicine for Mountaineering. His chapter on water treatment is what I suggest to people who don't enjoy reading more technical sources. Pat Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 17:47:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 17:46:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 17:46:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 17:45:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 17:41:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from harborside.com (exim@harborside.com [204.214.110.225]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 17:41:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cme-connection [204.214.112.16] by harborside.com with smtp (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0xBoJQ-0000xc-00; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:40:36 -0700 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Don Marr" Organization: CME Conection To: Ron Roth , wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:43:55 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: W-EMED Air search and motion sickness In-reply-to: <01BCC3A4.52BB7100.rnr@med.pitt.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 21a026c4de3b0e7aa1d80e05ab9925e6 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Could you expound on the statement you made below please. > > Don't use the patch, there is a risk of a very bad psychiatric reaction. > > Good luck. > > Ron Roth, MD FACEP Email rnr@med.pitt.edu > University of Pittsburgh Phone 412-647-1101 > 230 McKee Place # 400 Fax 412-647-1111 > Pittsburgh, PA 15213 Donald Marr EMT-P Training Officer Bay Cities Ambulance Coos Bay, OR KC7FZI donmarr@harborside.com ******************************************* My oppinions are mine and not those of the agencies or people who hired me, thinking I might change to fit their mold. Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.4) ID ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:12:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:12:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:12:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:10:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:07:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from naps.uwindsor.ca (dns.uwindsor.ca [137.207.232.1]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:07:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: naps: Host server.campus.uwindsor.ca claimed to be server.uwindsor.ca Received: from [137.207.2.23] (c1s0m12.student.uwindsor.ca [137.207.2.23]) by server.uwindsor.ca (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id AAA14883 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:07:09 -0400 X-Sender: pirie1@server.uwindsor.ca (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199709161512.LAA01095@mag1.magmacom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 00:04:32 -0500 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: "Steven D. Pirie" Subject: W-EMED Water Purification for the Outdoors Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: ccf7e02b38eb6b75a0053d7c43eb9d9a X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Langley and List >I am presently engaged in a search for authoritative references related to >the science of water purification for the outdoors. Here is the list that I used when I did some looking into the subject: 1. New Drugs - Drug News Newsletter Vol 4 No 1 Jan/Feb 1986 OCP Drug Information Centre, Faculty of Pharmacy, University of Toronto. 2. Water Treatment Devices - For Microbiological Purification of Water. ISSUES 15 August, 1991. Health Protection Branch, Health and Welfare Canada. 3. Pamphlet - "A Guide to Wilderness Drinking Water" - Communications Branch, Heath and Welfare Canada. 4. Backer, H. Field Water Disinfection. JAMA 1988:259(21):3185 You also might consider calling some of the manufactures: Recovery Engineering 1-800-845-7873 WAB Purification Products Development Ltd. (514) 483-5386 Katadyn USA Inc. Water Purification 1-800-950-0808. Hope it helps. Steven ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- OCdt Steven D. Pirie, BScN(c) Nursing Officer (Land) University of Windsor Canadian Forces Medical Service ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-cs: From: Self To: "Howard M. Paul" ,wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Air search and motion sickness Reply-to: kconover+@pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:53:59 On 16 Sep 97 at 9:26, Howard M. Paul wrote: > Are the various over-the-counter meds for motion sickness > sufficient > for prophylaxis when planning to fly for air search (helo or > fixed-wing). If so, is one recommended over the other (oral vs. > patch, etc.)? > Last spring I went up in an Army UH-60 Blackhawk and spent > more time > with my eyes closed than open! (Admittedly, it was at 12,000' to > 14,500' with a *real good* pilot.) > I may have the opportunity this winter to do some aerial > surveys of > our avalanche zones, and want to be as comfortable as possible... . > . . . p l e a s e ! ! Howard, of the OTC meds, I think that chewable Bonine (meclizine HCl) is best. The Trans-Derm Scop patches are best, but are prescription only -- and last I checked they weren't available anyway. And those little "sea-bands" with "acupressure buttons" are, as scientifically shown in a nice study, just a relatively expensive placebo. -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:28:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:27:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:27:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:26:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:22:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:22:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.142.57.10.pitt.edu (ehdup-j-2.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.21.192]) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.7/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:18:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709222318.TAA17717@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Keith Conover, M.D." To: "Howard M. Paul" , wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:17:50 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: W-EMED Air search and motion sickness In-reply-to: <199709161526.JAA12620@www.ecentral.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 8dfa4a5cfd0b80b0050c6e7d7c4c22ac X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 On 16 Sep 97 at 9:26, Howard M. Paul wrote: > Are the various over-the-counter meds for motion sickness > sufficient > for prophylaxis when planning to fly for air search (helo or > fixed-wing). If so, is one recommended over the other (oral vs. > patch, etc.)? > Last spring I went up in an Army UH-60 Blackhawk and spent > more time > with my eyes closed than open! (Admittedly, it was at 12,000' to > 14,500' with a *real good* pilot.) > I may have the opportunity this winter to do some aerial > surveys of > our avalanche zones, and want to be as comfortable as possible... . > . . . p l e a s e ! ! Howard, of the OTC meds, I think that chewable Bonine (meclizine HCl) is best. The Trans-Derm Scop patches are best, but are prescription only -- and last I checked they weren't available anyway. And those little "sea-bands" with "acupressure buttons" are, as scientifically shown in a nice study, just a relatively expensive placebo. --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:05:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:04:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:04:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:03:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:03:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from flipper.mtn.ncahec.org (flipper.mtn.ncahec.org [198.86.3.2]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:03:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moby.mtn.ncahec.org by flipper.mtn.ncahec.org (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA25256; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:03:29 -0400 Received: from FHC/TEMPQ by moby.mtn.ncahec.org (Mercury 1.11); Tue, 23 Sep 97 12:08:10 EDT Received: from TEMPQ by FHC (Mercury 1.11); Tue, 23 Sep 97 12:08:05 EDT From: "Chris Mertes - Rural Fellow" Organization: NC Mountain AHEC To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu, wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:08:00 EDT Subject: Re: W-EMED Water Purification for the Outdoors X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: <3DB36713ACB@moby.mtn.ncahec.org> Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 7cca97eb11f240c98679097f5e50eecc X-PMFLAGS: 33554560 0 On water purification... I have tried to answer some patient's questions with regard to iodine water purification. A literature and textbook search has not satisfactorily answered my questions... Is iodine containdicated in those who are allergic to seafood or iv contrast dye? My search describes that most of those allergic to seafoods are allergic to specific protein antigens, often which do not cross react between aquatic species. Lit search also details that dye allergy is most likely related to high osmolality (newer dyes have lower osm), and the actual dye moiety, rather than the iodine anions... Any experts out there or does anyone know some wild med oriented all/immunologists who would have info on the degree of containdication...recs for challenging with Iodine treated water? Thanks Chris Mertes, MD Sylva, NC > Date sent: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:07:23 > To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > From: Patton Turner > Subject: Re: W-EMED Water Purification for the Outdoors > Send reply to: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > At 11:18 AM 9/16/97 -0400, Langley R. Muir wrote: > >I am presently engaged in a search for authoritative references related to > >the science of water purification for the outdoors. > > > >I have, of course, seen all of the stuff in the standard first aid texts on > >the relative advantages of iodine (in various forms), chlorine (in various > >forms), and filters. However, I would like to go back to the original > >research literature and find out what all of this advice is based on. I > >have an unfounded suspicion that there is very little actual research, but > >that there is much opinion based on this little research - on the other > >hand, I would be gratified to find out that the scientific basis for all of > >this advice is simply very well known. (I am a physicist/mathematician > >rather than a microbiologist). > > The best information on wilderness water disinfection in Backer's chapter > is Auerbach's "Wilderness Medicine-Management of Wilderness and > Enviromental medicine" It does contain a bibliography. After that I would > check out the following texts for more depth. A database search on the > Journal of the American Water Works Association, the American Journal of > Public Health and the Journal of Wilderness Medicine would turn up a lot of > primary sources if you want to go to that extent. > > 1)Engineering in Emergencies published by Intermediate Technology Publications > 2)Waterlines magazine by the same publisher > > Both cover field water treatment geared towards relief workers in Africa. > Waterlines has a bit more broad focus. The later has published articles on > inovative techniques like solar photoxidative disinfection. > > 3) Chemical and Nonchemical Disenfection by Cheremisinoff, Cheremisinoff, > and Trattner, Published by Ann Arbor Science. > > Sugested mainly for it's treatment of reverse osmosis. > > 4) Civil Engineering Handbook, edited by Chen. Published by CRC > > Should be available in any library. Good coverage of chlorine and > activated charcoal chemistry. > > 5) New Concepts in Water Purification by Culp and Culp. > > Two paragraphs on silver's use in water treatment > > 6) Handbook of Public Water Systems by Culp, Wesner, and Culp. > > Limited coverage of non-chlorine water disinfection such as silver, iodine, > potassium permanganate, bromine, ozone, UV light, hydrogen peroxide, and > insoluble contact disinfectants. > > FWIW, I've found no significant errors, other than the ommision of > cryptosporida, in Wilkerson's Medicine for Mountaineering. His chapter on > water treatment is what I suggest to people who don't enjoy reading more > technical sources. > > Pat > > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. > To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" > as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu > Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:47:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:47:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:46:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:45:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsmail.acsworld.net (host-178-003.acsworld.net [198.113.178.3]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:45:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hill.acsworld.net ([198.113.178.210]) by newsmail.acsworld.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-12677) with SMTP id AAA157 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:47:41 -0400 Message-ID: <3427F246.6B64@acsworld.net> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:45:58 -0400 From: jhill@acsworld.net (James Hill, Jr.) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Water Purification for the Outdoors References: <3DB36713ACB@moby.mtn.ncahec.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 6e18fa7da54768fb2dcd2d52e4e7d6d9 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Chris Mertes - Rural Fellow wrote: > > On water purification... I have tried to answer some patient's > questions with regard to iodine water purification. A literature and > textbook search has not satisfactorily answered my questions... Is > iodine containdicated in those who are allergic to seafood or iv > contrast dye? I personally have EXTREME allergic reactions to seafood. (I've had reactions breathing the smoke from shrimp being cooked on a charcoal grill) I was tenative towards trying Iodine filtered water. However, with two EMT-P's and an MD by my side, (complete with Epi & benedryl) I guzzled down my first glass with no reaction. A hiking companion who also suffers with the same allergy, did not have a reaction to iodine filtered water. I don't know if it is specific to individuals, but we've not experienced any reactions after drinking probably in excess of 100-200 gallons filtered through my PUR Scout over the last year. Have them try some in the presence of someone who can administer care. In the event an allergic reaction is experianced, immediate care could be given. Jim Hill WEMT jhill@acsworld.net Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:55:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:55:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:55:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:50:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:48:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gw.bbt.com (gw.bbt.com [192.154.90.1]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:48:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gw.bbt.com (8.8.0/8.7.3) id NAA05784 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:48:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wrath.bbt.com(192.154.83.58) by gw.bbt.com via smap (3.2) id xma005760; Tue, 23 Sep 97 13:48:08 -0400 Received: from mckinley (mckinley [192.154.84.246]) by wrath-ne.bbt.com (8.8.0/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA09707 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:47:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <342800CB.50DC@bbt.com> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:47:55 -0400 From: Mike Claes Organization: BroadBand Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Water Purification for the Outdoors References: <3DB36713ACB@moby.mtn.ncahec.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 58c7b662a786a2a87d7d15129c2b1625 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Chris Mertes - Rural Fellow wrote: > > On water purification... I have tried to answer some patient's > questions with regard to iodine water purification. A literature and > textbook search has not satisfactorily answered my questions... Is > iodine containdicated in those who are allergic to seafood or iv > contrast dye? My search describes that most of those allergic to > seafoods are allergic to specific protein antigens, often which do > not cross react between aquatic species. Lit search also details > that dye allergy is most likely related to high osmolality (newer > dyes have lower osm), and the actual dye moiety, rather than the > iodine anions... Any experts out there or does anyone know some wild > med oriented all/immunologists who would have info on the degree of > containdication...recs for challenging with Iodine treated water? > Thanks Chris Mertes, MD Sylva, NC I know two individuals that are allergic to shellfish (but not other seafood such as tuna), exhibit an allergic reaction to iv iodine, and cannot use iodine for water purification without having a reaction. -Mike Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:58:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:57:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:57:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:57:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:55:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gw.bbt.com (gw.bbt.com [192.154.90.1]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:55:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gw.bbt.com (8.8.0/8.7.3) id NAA06803 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:55:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wrath.bbt.com(192.154.83.58) by gw.bbt.com via smap (3.2) id xma006744; Tue, 23 Sep 97 13:54:58 -0400 Received: from mckinley (mckinley [192.154.84.246]) by wrath-ne.bbt.com (8.8.0/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA10589 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:54:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <34280266.1D1F@bbt.com> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:54:47 -0400 From: Mike Claes Organization: BroadBand Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Water Purification for the Outdoors References: <3DB36713ACB@moby.mtn.ncahec.org> <3427F246.6B64@acsworld.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: f20584dabcff5460fc3ef04f73d58551 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 I was wondering: >Jim Hill wrote: > guzzled down my first glass with no reaction. A hiking companion who > also suffers with the same allergy, did not have a reaction to iodine > filtered water. Do you mean filtered as in with a PUR Scout, or treated with tablets or drops? > I don't know if it is specific to individuals, but we've not > experienced any reactions after drinking probably in excess of 100-200 > gallons filtered through my PUR Scout over the last year. Are you by any chance using the external carbon filter add-on, or just the iodine matrix filter? The two people I mentioned in a previous message can drink from a Pur Scout with the carbon filter without any problems. They have never tried it without the carbon filter. -Mike Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:50:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:50:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:50:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:49:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:49:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsmail.acsworld.net (host-178-003.acsworld.net [198.113.178.3]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:49:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hill.acsworld.net ([198.113.178.210]) by newsmail.acsworld.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-12677) with SMTP id AAA156 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:51:17 -0400 Message-ID: <34281D51.7224@acsworld.net> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:49:38 -0400 From: jhill@acsworld.net (James Hill, Jr.) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Water Purification for the Outdoors References: <3DB36713ACB@moby.mtn.ncahec.org> <3427F246.6B64@acsworld.net> <34280266.1D1F@bbt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 76a19baf33d0ae2444d9bb7c84dcfbd6 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Mike Claes wrote: > > I was wondering: > > . A hiking companion who also suffers with the same allergy, did not have a reaction to iodine filtered water. > > Do you mean filtered as in with a PUR Scout, or treated with tablets or > drops? > Filtered in a PUR Scout. > > Are you by any chance using the external carbon filter add-on, or just > the iodine matrix filter? I've used it both ways.(still no reaction) Doesn't the carbon filter add-on simply attempt to rid the water of the Iodine taste? I wasn't aware that there was an iodine filtration. > > The two people I mentioned in a previous message can drink from a Pur > Scout with the carbon filter without any problems. They have never > tried it without the carbon filter. Once again we've both used it both ways, and neither have had even a hint of reaction. BTW. I'm normally aware if I'm experiancing even the slightest symptoms. Hope this helps!!! Jim > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:03:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:02:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:02:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:01:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 16:58:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brickbat9.mindspring.com (brickbat9.mindspring.com [207.69.200.12]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 16:58:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (user-38lca6i.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.40.210]) by brickbat9.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA09998 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 16:58:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970926165752.489fc490@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: pmturner@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 16:57:52 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: Patton Turner Subject: Re: W-EMED Water Purification for the Outdoors In-Reply-To: <34281D51.7224@acsworld.net> References: <3DB36713ACB@moby.mtn.ncahec.org> <3427F246.6B64@acsworld.net> <34280266.1D1F@bbt.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: cde864c26b66b333b6373018f435ffd3 X-PMFLAGS: 35127424 0 At 03:49 PM 9/23/97 -0400, you wrote: >I've used it both ways.(still no reaction) Doesn't the carbon filter >add-on simply attempt to rid the water of the Iodine taste? I wasn't >aware that there was an iodine filtration. No, the activated charcoal adsorbs the iodine as it would chlorine. Methods that use ascorbic acid bind up the iodine as iodide, and would not prevent an allergic reaction. Pat Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:25:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:24:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:24:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:23:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:22:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:22:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.142.57.10.pitt.edu (ehdup-b1-2.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.20.72]) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.7/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:05:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709262105.RAA25735@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Keith Conover, M.D." To: Patton Turner , wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:05:39 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: W-EMED Water Purification for the Outdoors In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.19970926165752.489fc490@pop.mindspring.com> References: <34281D51.7224@acsworld.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: e68e98b77014b6ea546c2e7d6f68802f On 26 Sep 97 at 16:57, Patton Turner wrote: > No, the activated charcoal adsorbs the iodine as it would chlorine. > Methods that use ascorbic acid bind up the iodine as iodide, and > would not prevent an allergic reaction. Not sure that's true -- free iodine and iodide may look very different to the immune system. --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-cs: From: Self To: Allegheny Mtn. Rescue Maillist ,wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu,"Bru Randall, WEMT" Subject: Re: NOLS wilderness medic course Cc: NW-NCRC--John Gookin ,"Tod Schimelpfenig" Reply-to: kconover+@pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 16:44:33 Bru, that's news to me. I know a couple of people at NOLS and I'll cc: them with this message, maybe they can elucidate. I'll cross-post this to the W-EMED list as I suspect those on the list will be interested, too. On 30 Sep 97 at 6:36, Caverbru@aol.com wrote: > Does anyone know about a course supposedly run by the National > Outdoor Leadership School called "Wilderness Medic" or some similar > name? In April > I was an instructor at a cave rescue class. We had a student from > Ohio who > said she was a Wilderness Medic. When we questioned her about her > background she revealed that she was not certified as an EMT or > EMT-P in any state and that the prerequiste training was that of a > 1st Responder. She said that the training was 4 days long and that > she was only to use the things taught if she was more than 2 hours > from a hospital. She told us that she was told that she was a > qualified "Wilderness Medic" at the end of the course. I have never > run across this particular training before and neither had any of > the other instructors. The student seemed very shakey about her > skills and we felt that she was told that she should use a title > that implied skills way beyond those which she possessed. Any > comments. Bru Randall, East Region, NCRC > -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 18:29:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 18:28:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 18:28:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 18:26:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 18:23:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 18:23:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.142.57.10.pitt.edu (ehdup-c2-1.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.20.151]) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.7/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 18:18:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709302218.SAA00961@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Keith Conover, M.D." To: "Allegheny Mtn. Rescue Maillist" , wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu, "Bru Randall, WEMT" Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 18:17:55 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: W-EMED Re: NOLS wilderness medic course CC: NW-NCRC--John Gookin , "Tod Schimelpfenig" In-reply-to: <970930063612_-629322417@emout04.mail.aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 1c8ff333aa8f22a37e45fff266b7724e X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Bru, that's news to me. I know a couple of people at NOLS and I'll cc: them with this message, maybe they can elucidate. I'll cross-post this to the W-EMED list as I suspect those on the list will be interested, too. On 30 Sep 97 at 6:36, Caverbru@aol.com wrote: > Does anyone know about a course supposedly run by the National > Outdoor Leadership School called "Wilderness Medic" or some similar > name? In April > I was an instructor at a cave rescue class. We had a student from > Ohio who > said she was a Wilderness Medic. When we questioned her about her > background she revealed that she was not certified as an EMT or > EMT-P in any state and that the prerequiste training was that of a > 1st Responder. She said that the training was 4 days long and that > she was only to use the things taught if she was more than 2 hours > from a hospital. She told us that she was told that she was a > qualified "Wilderness Medic" at the end of the course. I have never > run across this particular training before and neither had any of > the other instructors. The student seemed very shakey about her > skills and we felt that she was told that she should use a title > that implied skills way beyond those which she possessed. Any > comments. Bru Randall, East Region, NCRC > --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-amrg@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 20:25:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 20:25:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 20:25:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 20:23:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 20:23:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 20:19:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.142.57.10.pitt.edu (ehdup-g-7.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.21.137]) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.7/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 19:59:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709302359.TAA07985@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Keith Conover, M.D." To: "Tod Schimelpfenig" , "John Gookin" Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 19:59:35 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: NOLS wilderness medic course Reply-to: kconover+@pitt.edu CC: "Allegheny Mtn. Rescue Maillist" , wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-amrg@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 909577272e4c6a2f2f2bf521f3708424 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 On 30 Sep 97 at 17:17, Tod Schimelpfenig wrote: > Dr. Conover > > I have taught or been associated with every WEMT, WFR or WFA course > taught at NOLS since 1975. We've never taught a four day wilderness > medical course and never used the term "wilderness medic". > Currently we only offer WFR for our staff, an occasional 16 hour WFA > for the public, and we haven't taught a WEMT in three years. This > sounds like a case of creative resume building. > > Cordially > > Tod Schimelpfenig > Rocky Mountain School Director - NOLS Thanks, Tod. I guess this answers the question, as well as explaining what you guys at NOLS are doing for medical training. --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 20:24:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 20:24:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 20:24:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 20:23:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 20:19:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 20:19:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.142.57.10.pitt.edu (ehdup-g-7.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.21.137]) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.7/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 19:59:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709302359.TAA07985@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Keith Conover, M.D." To: "Tod Schimelpfenig" , "John Gookin" Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 19:59:35 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: W-EMED RE: NOLS wilderness medic course CC: "Allegheny Mtn. Rescue Maillist" , wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: dc0286cac3c7729b1095ed7c0909ac4c X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 On 30 Sep 97 at 17:17, Tod Schimelpfenig wrote: > Dr. Conover > > I have taught or been associated with every WEMT, WFR or WFA course > taught at NOLS since 1975. We've never taught a four day wilderness > medical course and never used the term "wilderness medic". > Currently we only offer WFR for our staff, an occasional 16 hour WFA > for the public, and we haven't taught a WEMT in three years. This > sounds like a case of creative resume building. > > Cordially > > Tod Schimelpfenig > Rocky Mountain School Director - NOLS Thanks, Tod. I guess this answers the question, as well as explaining what you guys at NOLS are doing for medical training. --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End --