Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 11:06:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 11:06:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 11:06:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 11:04:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 11:01:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rmi.net (rainbow.rmii.com [166.93.8.14]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 11:00:51 -0400 (EDT) From: btilton@rmi.net Received: from 166.93.10.55 (slip1055.rmii.com [166.93.10.55]) by rmi.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA21454 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 09:00:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <343215DA.A6F@rmi.net> Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 09:20:26 +0000 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Re: NOLS wilderness medic course References: <199709302218.SAA00961@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: bb5749a65471040d8555ab0063c4e867 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 RE: Wilderness Medic. In more than 12 years of teaching wilderness medicine full time, I have never heard of a "wilderness medic" course, or even a wilderness medic. My association with NOLS dates back even more than 12 years, and I have never known the term in relation to NOLS either. Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 21:29:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 21:29:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 21:29:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 21:28:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 21:27:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout13.mail.aol.com (emout13.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.39]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 21:27:51 -0400 (EDT) From: MikeValora@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout13.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id VAA26267 for wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 21:27:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 21:27:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971002212534_-628941803@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Re: NOLS wilderness medic course Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: ca48284f86c852f9f6382320c0ecb877 X-PMFLAGS: 33554560 0 By some stretch of her mind could she have been thinking of the wilderness module that is offered by SOLO and WMA for certified EMTs. This is a four/five day course designed to teach all of the "wilderness protocols and what if's". Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 08:03:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 08:03:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 08:03:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 08:02:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 08:01:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout06.mail.aol.com (emout06.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.97]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 08:01:03 -0400 (EDT) From: RSSHANDLER@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout06.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id IAA23604 for wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 08:00:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 08:00:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971003080032_-1027464904@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: W-EMED Wilderness First Aid Course Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 23cf848b560dbae896b53a2f676290e4 X-PMFLAGS: 33554560 0 The Philadelphia Canoe Club is hosting a 2 day wilderness first aid course taught by Wilderness Medical Associates. Conveniently located 15 minutes from Philadelphia, the course will be held on October 25 & 26. The fee is $100. For further information please call 215/625-2386 or e-mail rsshandler@aol.com Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 06:20:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 06:07:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 06:07:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 06:05:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 06:03:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout10.mail.aol.com (emout10.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.25]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 06:03:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Caverbru@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout10.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id GAA07742 for wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 06:02:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 06:02:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971007060258_1857599680@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Re: NOLS wilderness medic course Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 28ba7d7b76fb59cf41a36010cd6a1ebb X-PMFLAGS: 33554560 0 I don't think so because she said she was not an EMT and that being certified as an EMT/Paramedic was not a requirement. I'm trying to get a name to persue this more. I also don't think that she took the course "out west" but rather in the East. Thanks for the comments and I'll keep you all posted as more info surfaces. Bru Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 14:03:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 14:02:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 14:02:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 14:00:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 13:59:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanshark.lanminds.com (lanshark.lanminds.com [140.174.208.11]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 13:59:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [208.1.127.124] (ppp4.lanminds.com [208.1.127.124]) by lanshark.lanminds.com (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA13656 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 10:58:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 10:58:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tmcguire@pop.lanminds.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: TMcGuire@LanMinds.Com (Thomas J. McGuire) Subject: W-EMED Univ Houston drowning study/Heimlich? Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 77278acdb48a15a11d6e1010b972af64 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Does anyone have info re a recent study affirming use of Heimlich maneuver in drowning victims? Was apparently referred to in "Fisherman" magazine, Oct/Nov 97 p.10. Thanks, Tom ***************************************** Thomas J. McGuire (TMcGuire@LanMinds.com) Chabot College Paramedic Program Berkeley Fire Department (California) ***************************************** Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 15:23:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 15:22:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 15:22:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 15:21:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 15:21:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 15:21:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emed.upmc.edu (pphled03.dwing.upmc.edu [128.147.175.164]) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 15:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from EMERG_MED/SpoolDir by emed.upmc.edu (Mercury 1.21); 7 Oct 97 15:21:25 -0500 Received: from SpoolDir by EMERG_MED (Mercury 1.30); 7 Oct 97 15:21:13 -0500 Received: from pmp4em34.mckee.upmc.edu by emed.upmc.edu (Mercury 1.30); 7 Oct 97 15:21:05 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971007151654.0069ed10@emed.upmc.edu> X-Sender: grandey@emed.upmc.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 15:17:43 -0400 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: "Jack T. Grandey" Subject: Re: W-EMED Univ Houston drowning study/Heimlich? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 5d2eecbdae709593b707a5be8a02bb2c X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Yes. It's been quoted many places, including JEMS, a few months back. I feel compelled to point out that it was not conducted from any medical or physiological perspective. Unfortunately, it has been picked up & run with, by many, absent any critical scientific review. If you can't find it, let me know. JTG At 10:58 10/7/97 -0700, you wrote: >Does anyone have info re a recent study affirming use of Heimlich maneuver >in drowning victims? > >Was apparently referred to in "Fisherman" magazine, Oct/Nov 97 p.10. > >Thanks, > >Tom > >***************************************** >Thomas J. McGuire (TMcGuire@LanMinds.com) >Chabot College Paramedic Program >Berkeley Fire Department (California) >***************************************** > > >Do not reproduce without author's express permission. >To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" >as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu >Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > Jack T. Grandey, NREMT-P Director, Division of Applied Informatics Operations Director Department of Emergency Medicine Wilderness EMS Institute University of Pittsburgh Medical Center http://www.wemsi.org/ http://www.upmc.edu/ Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 01:44:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 01:44:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 01:44:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 01:43:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 01:41:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout10.mail.aol.com (emout10.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.25]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 01:41:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Bighoss19@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout10.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id BAA24021 for wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 01:41:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 01:41:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971008014118_1343615181@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Univ Houston drowning study/Heimlich? Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 65b03f13aa6196d0f0fe2caf87a19959 X-PMFLAGS: 33554560 0 The instructor (Bill Kane) at Solo told us about a study done at the Univ. of Houston (TX) where (roughly) 24 out 27 persons who where not breathing coming out of the water were "brought back" using the Heimlich with any futher intervention. The other ponit was that when you vent a drowning victim you are actually pushing water into the lungs. NOTE - the ARC CPR gudielines still go! For now more studies are being done - Austraila - has been doing a version of the Heimlich w/ the PT on his/her belly and lifting up - I doubt this will take hold in the US - This info is fresh I JUST got back from my WEMT RECERT. Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 02:22:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 02:22:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 02:22:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 02:21:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 02:19:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ctral1.Vanderbilt.Edu (ctral1.Vanderbilt.Edu [129.59.1.22]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 02:19:40 -0400 (EDT) From: DURKINTJ@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu Received: from ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu by ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #24212) id <01IOJNYGG83K9BZSRI@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu> for wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 01:18:16 CDT Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 01:18:16 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: W-EMED Univ Houston drowning study/Heimlich? To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Message-id: <01IOJNYGGBV69BZSRI@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu> X-VMS-To: IN%"wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: e2862cbec26cffaee30070f418359308 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Recent ( past 15+ years ) articles in most medical and related journals are availible to be researched by the public on the internet on a server maintained at the national library of medicine at NIH in Bethesda, MD. The primary search engine (medline) url is : www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/medline.html alternate search engine (grateful med) igm.nlm.nih.gov hope this is helpful. Tim Durkin Davidson County (TN) Rescue Squad Vanderbilt Emergency Medical Society Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 08:28:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 08:28:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 08:28:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 08:27:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 08:26:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rmi.net (rainbow.rmii.com [166.93.8.14]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 08:26:31 -0400 (EDT) From: btilton@rmi.net Received: from 166.93.10.66 (slip1066.rmii.com [166.93.10.66]) by rmi.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA07027 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 06:26:29 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <343B2C44.457C@rmi.net> Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 06:46:28 +0000 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Univ Houston drowning study/Heimlich? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 20635a4be970f6f2f98ce817ffe6cd67 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Mention was made of the Univ of Houston study of the Heimlich in drownings in the September/October 1997 issue of Ocean Navigator. Anecdotal info from Los Angeles lifeguards is included in the article. You might contact the Heimlich Institute for more info: 513-221-0002. Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 12:04:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 12:04:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 12:04:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 12:03:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 12:02:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanshark.lanminds.com (lanshark.lanminds.com [140.174.208.11]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 12:02:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [208.1.127.124] (ppp4.lanminds.com [208.1.127.124]) by lanshark.lanminds.com (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA22001 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 09:01:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 09:01:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tmcguire@pop.lanminds.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: TMcGuire@LanMinds.Com (Thomas J. McGuire) Subject: Re: W-EMED Univ Houston drowning study/Heimlich? Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 4a928efc0070bf30ba5046cd912a7158 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 At 6.46 8.10.97, btilton@rmi.net wrote: >Mention was made of the Univ of Houston study of the Heimlich in >drownings in the September/October 1997 issue of Ocean Navigator... "Ocean Navigator!" an old favorite, which has/d pretty authoritative medical advice as I recall. Interesting how this "Houston" study has been so widely quoted, yet apparently not published in a peer reviewed journal. MEDLINE supplies an early Heimlich apology for his maneuver in drowning (2) and a more recent critique by Peter Rosen (1). Regards, Tom "luff is a four-letter word" (1) J Emerg Med 1995 May;13(3):397-405 The use of the Heimlich maneuver in near drowning: Institute of Medicine report. Rosen P, Stoto M, Harley J Department of Emergency Medicine, San Diego Medical Center, University of California, USA. The application of the Heimlich maneuver as the initial and perhaps only step for opening the airway in all near-drowning victims has been proposed by Henry Heimlich and Edward Patrick, contrary to current resuscitation guidelines for the treatment of near-drowning victims established by the Emergency Cardiac Care (ECC) Committee of the American Heart Association. Although the Heimlich maneuver is useful for the removal of aspirated solid foreign bodies, there is no evidence that death from drowning is frequently caused by aspiration of a solid foreign body that is not effectively treated by the current ECC recommendations. Furthermore, the evidence is insufficient to support the proposition that the Heimlich maneuver is useful for the removal of aspirated liquid. Moreover, because there is no evidence to support Heimlich's hypothesis that substantial amounts of water are aspirated by near-drowning victims or that such aspirated liquid causes brain damage and death, the available evidence does not support routine use of the Heimlich maneuver in the care of near-drowning victims. The routine use of the Heimlich maneuver for treatment of near drowning raises several concerns: (a) the amount of time it would take to repeat this maneuver and how long this would delay the initiation of artificial ventilation; (b) possible complications of the Heimlich maneuver, especially if the near drowning is associated with a cervical fracture; and (c) the prospect of teaching rescue workers a different protocol than that which is taught at present for resuscitating victims of cardiopulmonary arrest from all causes other than near drowning. (2) Postgrad Med 1988 Aug;84(2):62-67 Using the Heimlich maneuver to save near-drowning victims. Heimlich HJ, Patrick EA Xavier University, Cincinnati. Flooding of the lungs occurs routinely in drowning victims. The cause of death in 90% of them is hypoxemia caused by water in the lungs. Mouth-to-mouth ventilation is ineffective until the water is removed. The Heimlich maneuver expels aspirated water, vomitus, debris, and other foreign matter. In treating near-drowning victims, place the victim in the supine position with head turned to the side and perform the Heimlich maneuver to evacuate water from the lungs, unless you know water is not in the respiratory tract. The Heimlich maneuver is a form of artificial respiration. It elevates the diaphragm, increasing intrathoracic pressure and compressing the lungs, and should be performed intermittently until all water is expelled. It is an especially useful technique because fear of contagion sometimes deters rescuers from using mouth-to-mouth ventilation . Further treatment has not been necessary in most instances. If the victim does not recover after water ceases to flow from the mouth, ventilation techniques, cardiopulmonary resuscitation, and other measures as indicated should be used. ***************************************** Thomas J. McGuire (TMcGuire@LanMinds.com) Chabot College Paramedic Program Berkeley Fire Department (California) ***************************************** Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 13:39:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 13:39:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 13:39:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 13:37:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 13:37:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webcube.vegasnet.net (webcube.vegasnet.net [208.136.108.1]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 13:37:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from daves-home ([208.147.126.144]) by webcube.vegasnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA07427 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 10:44:42 -0700 Message-ID: <343BC6B5.51720723@vegasnet.net> Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 10:45:25 -0700 From: David Lehman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Univ Houston drowning study/Heimlich? X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 15f917ef2e0e4d75082096603e294e6d X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 According to the AHA ACLS guidelines, the Heimlich maneuver is not indicated in the drowning victim. The reason cited is that the chance of secondary aspiration of gastric contents. As we know, fluids are rapidly absorbed by the lungs. Most drowning / near-drowning victims have only a small amount of water in the lungs anyways. Laryngospasm at the time of submersion limits the amount of water to a minimal amount in many cases. Proper ventilation using the appropriate adjuncts ( OPA, BVM, ET tube, etc.) is the most important consideration. This is my opinion, but treat the airway much the way you would treat somebody with acute pulminary edema. Meaning positive pressure ventilation ( except when possible barotrauma exists such as scuba drownings) . Hope this helps, David Lehman, MICP Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 19:20:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 19:19:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 19:19:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 19:19:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 19:17:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from harborside.com (exim@harborside.com [204.214.110.225]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 19:17:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cme-connection [204.214.112.4] by harborside.com with smtp (Exim 1.62 #4) id 0xJ5M1-0000tF-00; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 16:17:21 -0700 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Don Marr" Organization: CME Conection To: TMcGuire@LanMinds.Com (Thomas J. McGuire), wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 16:21:02 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: W-EMED Univ Houston drowning study/Heimlich? In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 5e5a6007cebb4bdae7ca488060675bf3 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 > Does anyone have info re a recent study affirming use of Heimlich maneuver > in drowning victims? > > Was apparently referred to in "Fisherman" magazine, Oct/Nov 97 p.10. > Here is the info I got to the same question from the person that posted to the EMERG-L about the same article in "In Fisherman" magazine: Send reply to: From: "Kenneth A. Turner" To: "Don Marr" Subject: Re: University of Houston study on drowning Date sent: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 17:16:20 -0700 Don, I don't have any info on the study other than the article but maybe their ftp or gopher server (at U Houston) will help. If not, make a call. They would be more than glad to aid the prehospital community. But be sure to let your medical director in on it before you squeeze any bellies. Ken Turner www.hom.net/~katurner/emergncy.htm MS, BLS-C, CFR Donald Marr EMT-P Training Officer Bay Cities Ambulance PO Box 575 Coos Bay, OR 97420 KC7FZI donmarr@harborside.com ******************************************* My oppinions are mine and not those of the agencies or people who hired me, thinking I might change to fit their mold. Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 23:19:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 23:18:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 23:18:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 23:18:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 23:17:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.goodnet.com (mail.goodnet.com [207.98.129.2]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 23:17:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PC_.goodnet.com (phx-ts19-8.goodnet.com [207.98.133.73]) by mail.goodnet.com (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id UAA19589 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 20:15:30 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <343005B0.6B65@earthlink.net> References: Conversation <343005B0.6B65@earthlink.net> with last message <343005B0.6B65@earthlink.net> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: "WEMS News" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Tim Kovacs" Subject: W-EMED Fw: Olympic Park Accident --NTSB prelim report Date: Thu, 09 Oct 97 18:29:30 PDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: d6de0e289bbdc1d1126b16ade3dc692f X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 ---------- > Date: Monday, September 29, 1997 12:46:56 > From: Gus Bush > To: mra@altadena.net > Subject: Olympic Park Accident --NTSB prelim report > > Here is the web page containing the Official Prelim report from the > NTSB > > http://www.ntsb.gov/Aviation/LAX/97A325.htm > > Here are the contents > > NTSB Identification: LAX97GA325 > > Accident occurred SEP-12-97 at SEQUIM, WA > > Aircraft: Bell 205A-1, > > registration: N90HJ > > Injuries: 3 Fatal, 5 Serious. > > On September 12, 1997, about 1630 hours Pacific daylight time, a Bell > 205A-1, N90HJ, was destroyed during a collision with mountainous > terrain in the takeoff initial climb near Sequim, Washington. The > helicopter was operated by the National Park Service as a public-use > aircraft. The pilot and two passengers received fatal injuries, five > passengers received serious injuries. The flight originated on the day > of the accident as part of an on-going search for a lost hiker in the > Buckhorn Wilderness Area of the Olympic National Forest. Instrument > meteorological conditions with visibility's less than 1/4 mile > prevailed > at the departure point. The pilot had flown up from Eugene, Oregon, > for the search effort and had no prior experience in the Olympic > National Forest. The accident flight was his second mission in the > area > and the first landing at this landing zone. According to ground and > passenger witness interviews, the takeoff was vertical into fog and a > very low ceiling. > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 23:31:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 23:31:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 23:31:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 23:30:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 23:30:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.goodnet.com (mail.goodnet.com [207.98.129.2]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 23:30:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PC_.goodnet.com (phx-ns43-8.goodnet.com [207.204.254.73]) by mail.goodnet.com (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id UAA22026 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 20:27:53 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: "WEMS News" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Tim Kovacs" Subject: W-EMED Fw: Kong Bonaiti Carabiner fracture Date: Thu, 09 Oct 97 18:29:54 PDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 1a2713af0aaafdc17020f08ab2a03c7d X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 ---------- > Date: Thursday, October 02, 1997 21:38:45 > From: Tim Kovacs > To: mra officers > Subject: Kong Bonaiti Carabiner fracture > > Two carabiner failures and two other incidents from the IKAR (International > Commission for Alpine Rescue) in the Italian Alps this past week. This > information is very new, so few details are available, but it is worthy of > mention - to keep you safe. > 1. Last week, Bruno Jelk of the Bavarian Bergwacht came to the IKAR with > an interesting account. He was practicing Cable car (ski lift) rescue > helicopter winching. They had completed 5 evolutions of hooking "victims" > to the helicopter winch and removing them from the stranded cable car, 150 > meters from the ground. Bruno then hooked himself to the winch end with a > Helicopter Cache Kong Bonaiti CE 474 (29 kN/9kN/9kN). As he put one foot > out of the cable car and was holding with one hand at the door's edge and > the winch brought him taut, the carabiner fractured. The safety officer > inside the cable car pulled him back into the car, asnd there was no > further incident. The gate and head of the carabiner were lost in the snow > and terrain below, but the rest was recovered. The carabiner had no known > previous damage, and had been bought new two years ago. He says it was not > side loaded and the gate had been shut. There is not at this time suspicion > of shock loading. I insped\cted the carabiner in Italy last week and it > appears to have been a rupture/fracture, not a slow pull. It also does not > appear to me to be a shock load. They are planning further tests on the > carabiner, and it only occurred last Friday, just before Bruno came to the > IKAR. A Kong rep conatcted by Bruno said they suspect it had most likely > been made unsafe by being previously dropped or hit against something. > There is strong suspicion of intrinsic fault of the carabiner itself. The > Bergwacht has immediately suspended use of this model carabiner until > further notice, as have several other European mountain rescue teams. They > also seem now to be serious about using 2 points of connection for even > personal loads (the most important kind, don't you think? Bruno is now a > believer). Some of my helicopter friends suggest this as definitive proof > of the superiority of steel carabiners and that if steel was used, this > would not have occurred. I will give more details of this incident and the > follow up in my report of the IKAR conference. Meanwhile we suggest you > suspend any use of these until further notice from Kong or a reliable > source. > 2. There was a second carabiner failure reported. In June in Zermatt > during equipment testing, a large aluminum carabiner had inadvertently been > placed relatively equi-distantly at a 90 degree rock edge for a hand or > power winching operation. Under something near a rescue load, the carabiner > fractured at about the half point. This sounds clearly like poor placement > and poor edge equipment management, but still can happen. Again, more > details as I learn them. > 3. I have a third incident to give you, although there are more. The > Slovenians were practicing helicopter ops in July, when they had 7 rescuers > on a mountain and a safety line/tether tied around a gendarme-type > prominence on their ledge. they were 150 m above ground. The 212 had 2 > pilots, 2 winchmen and 1 trainer. The attendant and "victim" were hooked to > the winch. As the winch was raised, the ship also pulled power vertically > and went to the side. Apparently, a knot in the tether got caught in some > part of the litter. As the ship gained altitude, the 5 rescuers still on > the tether were lifted along with the litter, attendant and victim. The > tether lifted off of the prominence. The tether finally came loose from > whatever it was hooked to on the litter and the 5 rescuers connected to it > fell to there deaths. The ship, crew and "victim" and attendant were > spared. Initial impressions from their people; Limit the equipment the > rescuers have attached to their harnesses and elsewhere, to limit the > potential for gear hanging up. Use a safety officer or don't forget to > always check whether anythings hooked to something it shouldn't be. Have > excellent communication with the pilot/crew. > 4. REGA (Swiss Air Rescue) had a double fatality in late August > involving a HELICOPTER RESCUE WINCH (new generation Breeze Eastern). They > had winched a physician down to a female victim in the Swiss Alps area. The > physician did the standard packaging job. The two were being hoisted into > the K2 Agusta when the winch stopped at about 9 meters from the ship. The > pilot carefully began to fly low and slow down a valley to a spot where he > could set the pair down (less than 2 minutes). Within 100 feet of final, > the cable broke and the two fell about 30 feet, killing the victim and the > physician. The winch apparently had wound the cable onto itself instead of > eploying evenly onto the spool barrell, and when the cable had wound over > itself so thickly, it jammed the winch. It then cut the cable. This > apparently also occurred some months before in Italy with another rescue > service and with the same generation of Breeze winch, but was unknown to > other rescue agenices at the time. > > Stay safe, > Tim Kovacs, Mountain Rescue Association; NASAR and your IKAR Rep. > P.S.; If you know of anyone else who should be informed of these types of > incidents, please send me their name, email address, and team name, so I > can add them in next time. > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-cs: From: Self To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu,asrc@list.pitt.edu Subject: WEMSI Wilderness EMT Course Guide now available Cc: EMED List ,sar-l@islandnet.com Reply-to: kconover+@pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:24:05 The first full official release of the Wilderness EMS Institute's Wilderness EMT Course Guide is now available at http://www.wemsi.org The Guide comes as one main part and three large appendices. The Course Guide is in Adobe Acrobat 3.0 format. The WEMSI Web Page provides a link for downloading the free Adobe Acrobat Reader for all platforms. Plug-in viewers for Netscape Navigator and Internet Explorer are also available. This is version 2.0; version 1.0 was an official release but was incomplete. We expect to release a version 2.1 with a small amount of additional information sometime this winter. Suggestions for improvement (and proofreading comments!) are always welcome, please address them to: "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" (note: you cannot obtain printed copies from me, please use the address below) Printed copies of the Guide and all its appendices are available for $10 postpaid (make checks payable to Center for Emergency Medicine) from this address: 230 McKee Place, Suite 500 Pittsburgh, PA 15213-4904 412-578-3203 wemsi+@pitt.edu Thank you for your interest in Wilderness EMS. -- End -- Return-Path: sar-l-request@islandnet.com Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (daemon@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:42:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID for kconover@pop.pitt.edu; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:42:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail for kconover+@pitt.edu; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:42:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [198.53.172.12]) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:38:55 -0400 (EDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:38:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.islandnet.com id m0xKnOM-0006ccC for kconover+@pitt.edu; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:30:50 -0700 (PDT) Old-Return-Path: Message-Id: <199710131624.MAA27616@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Keith Conover, M.D." To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu, asrc@list.pitt.edu Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:24:13 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: WEMSI Wilderness EMT Course Guide now available Reply-to: kconover+@pitt.edu CC: EMED List , sar-l@islandnet.com Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Resent-Message-ID: <"g9ZHw.0.XX6.toaGq"@mail> Resent-From: sar-l@islandnet.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4649 X-Loop: sar-l@islandnet.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: sar-l-request@islandnet.com X-UIDL: aa92645230379c69181884f608fee443 The first full official release of the Wilderness EMS Institute's Wilderness EMT Course Guide is now available at http://www.wemsi.org The Guide comes as one main part and three large appendices. The Course Guide is in Adobe Acrobat 3.0 format. The WEMSI Web Page provides a link for downloading the free Adobe Acrobat Reader for all platforms. Plug-in viewers for Netscape Navigator and Internet Explorer are also available. This is version 2.0; version 1.0 was an official release but was incomplete. We expect to release a version 2.1 with a small amount of additional information sometime this winter. Suggestions for improvement (and proofreading comments!) are always welcome, please address them to: "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" (note: you cannot obtain printed copies from me, please use the address below) Printed copies of the Guide and all its appendices are available for $10 postpaid (make checks payable to Center for Emergency Medicine) from this address: 230 McKee Place, Suite 500 Pittsburgh, PA 15213-4904 412-578-3203 wemsi+@pitt.edu Thank you for your interest in Wilderness EMS. --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover ========================================================================== SAR-L Search and Rescue discussion list. For unsubscribe information-email to sar-l-request@islandnet.com with the word 'help' in the subject field. ========================================================================== -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:33:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:32:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:32:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:32:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:27:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aus-b.mp.campus.mci.net (aus-b.mp.campus.mci.net [208.140.84.22]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:26:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lizard (s15-pm34.snaustel.campus.mci.net [207.49.122.58]) by aus-b.mp.campus.mci.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA07651; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:35:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:35:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199710160235.WAA07651@aus-b.mp.campus.mci.net> X-Sender: mbryant@wku.campus.mci.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: MArt371256@aol.com, ozcavers@gospel.iinet.net.au, cavers@ditell.com, tindallc@mindspring.com, ewbryant@tva.gov, smoky@logantele.com, rgalviniii@logantele.com, sar-l@islandnet.com, wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu, sar-dogs@apple.ease.lsoft.com, jkary@WKU.CAMPUS.MCI.NET From: mbryant@WKU.CAMPUS.MCI.NET (Mike Bryant) Subject: W-EMED The coolest chain letter Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: f0ff7eec09516b87bc5c97ae76230d2a >> > > HOLD THE DOWN ARROW AND KEEP GOING!!! >> > >> >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi peopl e >> > >> hi peopl e >> > >> hi peopl e >> > >> hi peopl e >> > >> hi peop l e >> > >> hi peop l e >> > >> hi peop l e >> > >> hi peop l e >> > >> hi peo p l e >> > >> hi peo p l e >> > >> hi peo p l e >> > >> hi peo p l e >> > >> hi pe o p l e >> > >> hi pe o p l e >> > >> hi pe o p l e >> > >> hi pe o p l e >> > >> hi p e o p l e >> > >> hi p e o p l e >> > >> hi p e o p l e >> > >> hi p e o p l e >> > >> hi p e o p l e >> > >> hi p e o p l e >> > >> hi p e o p l e >> > >> h i p e o p l e >> > >> h i p e o p l e >> > >> h i p e o p l e >> > >> h i p e o p l e >> > >> h i p e o p l e >> > >> h i p e o p l e >> > >> h i p e o p l e >> > >> h i p e o p l e >> > >> h i p e o p l e >> > >> h i p e o p l e >> > >> h i p e o p l e >> > >> h i p e o p le >> > >> h i p e o p le >> > >> h i p e o p le >> > >> h i p e o p le >> > >> h i p e o ple >> > >> h i p e o ple >> > >> h i p e o ple >> > >> h i p e o ple >> > >> h i p e ople >> > >> h i p e ople >> > >> h i p e ople >> > >> h i p e ople >> > >> h i p eople >> > >> h i p eople >> > >> h i p eople >> > >> h i p eople >> > >> h i people >> > >> h i people >> > >> h i people >> > >> h i people >> > >> h i people >> > >> h i people >> > >> h i people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi peopl e >> > >> hi peopl e >> > >> hi peopl e >> > >> hi peopl e >> > >> hi peop l e >> > >> hi peop l e >> > >> hi peop l e >> > >> hi peop l e >> > >> hi peo p l e >> > >> hi peo p l e >> > >> hi peo p l e >> > >> hi peo p l e >> > >> hi pe o p l e >> > >> hi pe o p l e >> > >> hi pe o p l e >> > >> hi pe o p l e >> > >> hi p e o p l e >> > >> hi p e o p l e >> > >> hi p e o p l e >> > >> hi p e o p l e >> > >> hi p e o p l e >> > >> hi p e o p l e >> > >> hi p e o p l e >> > >> h i p e o p l e >> > >> h i p e o p l e >> > >> h i p e o p l e >> > >> h i p e o p l e >> > >> h i p e o p l e >> > >> h i p e o p l e >> > >> h i p e o p l e >> > >> h i p e o p l e >> > >> h i p e o p l e >> > >> h i p e o p l e >> > >> h i p e o p l e >> > >> h i p e o p le >> > >> h i p e o p le >> > >> h i p e o p le >> > >> h i p e o p le >> > >> h i p e o ple >> > >> h i p e o ple >> > >> h i p e o ple >> > >> h i p e o ple >> > >> h i p e ople >> > >> h i p e ople >> > >> h i p e ople >> > >> h i p e ople >> > >> h i p eople >> > >> h i p eople >> > >> h i p eople >> > >> h i p eople >> > >> h i people >> > >> h i people >> > >> h i people >> > >> h i people >> > >> h i people >> > >> h i people >> > >> h i people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi p e ople >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> hi people >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> a int this kool >> > >> a int this kool >> > >> a int this kool >> > >> a int this kool >> > >> a i nt this kool >> > >> a i nt this kool >> > >> a i nt this kool >> > >> ai nt this kool >> > >> ai n t this kool >> > >> ai n t this kool >> > >> ai n t this kool >> > >> ain t this kool >> > >> ain t this kool >> > >> ain t this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint t his kool >> > >> aint t his kool >> > >> aint t his kool >> > >> aint t h is kool >> > >> aint t h is kool >> > >> aint t h is kool >> > >> aint th i s kool >> > >> aint th i s kool >> > >> aint th i s kool >> > >> aint thi s kool >> > >> aint thi s kool >> > >> aint thi s kool >> > >> aint this k ool >> > >> aint this k ool >> > >> aint this k ool >> > >> aint this k o ol >> > >> aint this k o ol >> > >> aint this k o ol >> > >> aint this ko o l >> > >> aint this ko o l >> > >> aint this ko o l >> > >> aint this koo l >> > >> aint this koo l >> > >> aint this koo l >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> aint this kool >> > >> >> > >> STOP SCROLLING " With talent on loan from God" Mike Bryant Vicepresident, BRASDA PIO, TRACER Scanner/Senior Member, CAP PSD, DR1, Nitrox Diver, NREMT-B Analyical Chemist (paying job !), Hyperbaric Med Tech (part-time) mbryant@wku.campus.mci.net or mike.bryant@wku.edu Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 15:49:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 15:48:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 15:48:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 15:46:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 15:46:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Forsythe.Stanford.EDU (forsythe.Stanford.EDU [36.54.0.16]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 15:46:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199710161946.PAA00287@list.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 97 12:45:18 PDT From: "Robert Norris" To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: W-EMED Photo request Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 2a456fe9b349580d361801c2b3d37fdb X-PMFLAGS: 33554560 0 Hello all, I have written a few chapters for the new online emergency medicine text that was advertised recently on this list. I am in need of some photos for my chapters and wondered if anyone was willing to offer up some (for photo credit in the chapter)? I need photos of: - large centipede (preferrably giant desert centipede) - puss caterpillar - gila monster Any photos of clinical cases would also be helpful. Thanks! Bob Norris Chief, Emergency Medicine Stanford University email: bob.norris@forsythe.stanford.edu To: WILDERNESS-EMERGENCY-MEDICINE@LIST.PITT.EDU Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:22:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:21:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:21:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:20:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:19:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from catios.udea.edu.co (sparra@catios.udea.edu.co [200.24.18.20]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:15:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (sparra@localhost) by catios.udea.edu.co (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA08554 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:12:01 -0500 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:12:01 -0500 (EST) From: "Sergio Parra." To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED The coolest chain letter In-Reply-To: <199710160235.WAA07651@aus-b.mp.campus.mci.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: fe4a5a9507d02974c9604eaa1a8f781a X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Hola: No nos hagas perder el tiempo! Gracias Sergio Parra. On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Mike Bryant wrote: > > >> > > HOLD THE DOWN ARROW AND KEEP GOING!!! > >> > >> > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi peopl e > >> > >> hi peopl e > >> > >> hi peopl e > >> > >> hi peopl e > >> > >> hi peop l e > >> > >> hi peop l e > >> > >> hi peop l e > >> > >> hi peop l e > >> > >> hi peo p l e > >> > >> hi peo p l e > >> > >> hi peo p l e > >> > >> hi peo p l e > >> > >> hi pe o p l e > >> > >> hi pe o p l e > >> > >> hi pe o p l e > >> > >> hi pe o p l e > >> > >> hi p e o p l e > >> > >> hi p e o p l e > >> > >> hi p e o p l e > >> > >> hi p e o p l e > >> > >> hi p e o p l e > >> > >> hi p e o p l e > >> > >> hi p e o p l e > >> > >> h i p e o p l e > >> > >> h i p e o p l e > >> > >> h i p e o p l e > >> > >> h i p e o p l e > >> > >> h i p e o p l e > >> > >> h i p e o p l e > >> > >> h i p e o p l e > >> > >> h i p e o p l e > >> > >> h i p e o p l e > >> > >> h i p e o p l e > >> > >> h i p e o p l e > >> > >> h i p e o p le > >> > >> h i p e o p le > >> > >> h i p e o p le > >> > >> h i p e o p le > >> > >> h i p e o ple > >> > >> h i p e o ple > >> > >> h i p e o ple > >> > >> h i p e o ple > >> > >> h i p e ople > >> > >> h i p e ople > >> > >> h i p e ople > >> > >> h i p e ople > >> > >> h i p eople > >> > >> h i p eople > >> > >> h i p eople > >> > >> h i p eople > >> > >> h i people > >> > >> h i people > >> > >> h i people > >> > >> h i people > >> > >> h i people > >> > >> h i people > >> > >> h i people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi peopl e > >> > >> hi peopl e > >> > >> hi peopl e > >> > >> hi peopl e > >> > >> hi peop l e > >> > >> hi peop l e > >> > >> hi peop l e > >> > >> hi peop l e > >> > >> hi peo p l e > >> > >> hi peo p l e > >> > >> hi peo p l e > >> > >> hi peo p l e > >> > >> hi pe o p l e > >> > >> hi pe o p l e > >> > >> hi pe o p l e > >> > >> hi pe o p l e > >> > >> hi p e o p l e > >> > >> hi p e o p l e > >> > >> hi p e o p l e > >> > >> hi p e o p l e > >> > >> hi p e o p l e > >> > >> hi p e o p l e > >> > >> hi p e o p l e > >> > >> h i p e o p l e > >> > >> h i p e o p l e > >> > >> h i p e o p l e > >> > >> h i p e o p l e > >> > >> h i p e o p l e > >> > >> h i p e o p l e > >> > >> h i p e o p l e > >> > >> h i p e o p l e > >> > >> h i p e o p l e > >> > >> h i p e o p l e > >> > >> h i p e o p l e > >> > >> h i p e o p le > >> > >> h i p e o p le > >> > >> h i p e o p le > >> > >> h i p e o p le > >> > >> h i p e o ple > >> > >> h i p e o ple > >> > >> h i p e o ple > >> > >> h i p e o ple > >> > >> h i p e ople > >> > >> h i p e ople > >> > >> h i p e ople > >> > >> h i p e ople > >> > >> h i p eople > >> > >> h i p eople > >> > >> h i p eople > >> > >> h i p eople > >> > >> h i people > >> > >> h i people > >> > >> h i people > >> > >> h i people > >> > >> h i people > >> > >> h i people > >> > >> h i people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi p e ople > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> hi people > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> a int this kool > >> > >> a int this kool > >> > >> a int this kool > >> > >> a int this kool > >> > >> a i nt this kool > >> > >> a i nt this kool > >> > >> a i nt this kool > >> > >> ai nt this kool > >> > >> ai n t this kool > >> > >> ai n t this kool > >> > >> ai n t this kool > >> > >> ain t this kool > >> > >> ain t this kool > >> > >> ain t this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint t his kool > >> > >> aint t his kool > >> > >> aint t his kool > >> > >> aint t h is kool > >> > >> aint t h is kool > >> > >> aint t h is kool > >> > >> aint th i s kool > >> > >> aint th i s kool > >> > >> aint th i s kool > >> > >> aint thi s kool > >> > >> aint thi s kool > >> > >> aint thi s kool > >> > >> aint this k ool > >> > >> aint this k ool > >> > >> aint this k ool > >> > >> aint this k o ol > >> > >> aint this k o ol > >> > >> aint this k o ol > >> > >> aint this ko o l > >> > >> aint this ko o l > >> > >> aint this ko o l > >> > >> aint this koo l > >> > >> aint this koo l > >> > >> aint this koo l > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> aint this kool > >> > >> > >> > >> STOP SCROLLING > " With talent on loan from God" > > Mike Bryant Vicepresident, BRASDA > PIO, TRACER Scanner/Senior Member, CAP > PSD, DR1, Nitrox Diver, NREMT-B Analyical Chemist (paying job !), > Hyperbaric Med Tech (part-time) > mbryant@wku.campus.mci.net or mike.bryant@wku.edu > > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. > To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" > as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu > Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:59:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:58:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:58:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:56:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:56:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ctral1.Vanderbilt.Edu (ctral1.Vanderbilt.Edu [129.59.1.22]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:56:26 -0400 (EDT) From: DURKINTJ@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu Received: from ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu by ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #24212) id <01IOVEIIAJSG9EDCDD@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu> for wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:53:22 CDT Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:53:22 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: W-EMED The coolest chain letter To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Message-id: <01IOVEIIAOIA9EDCDD@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu> X-VMS-To: IN%"wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 673728f0236daa1e59ae140a9ca42bfe X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Spam. Spam bad. No Spam, please. Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:09:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:08:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:08:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:06:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:04:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net (mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.34]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:03:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [12.70.73.42] by mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA5780 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:02:26 +0000 X-Sender: splantz@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: splantz@worldnet.att.net (Scott H. Plantz, M.D.) Subject: W-EMED Re: EMERGENCY PICTURES Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:02:26 +0000 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: b2615ea1be171b3c61b8acb844fdd82d X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Dear Wilderness List, Our new online emergency medicine text is now up and running. It can be found at www.emedicine.com We really need your help and support in improving the pictorial images of the text. If you have pictures your are willing to donate, please contact the staff or load them online. The pictues will be distributed for academic teaching purposes by display in the online text. Thanks. shp Scott H. Plantz, M.D., FAAEM Asst. Prof. and Research Director Dept. of Emergency Medicine Mt. Sinai Medical Center Suite 746, 800 S. Wells Chicago, IL 60607 Ph. 813-367-7763 Fx. 813-367-7764 Em. splantz@worldnet.att.net Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:48:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:48:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:48:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:46:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:44:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout20.mail.aol.com (emout20.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.46]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:44:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Bighoss19@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout20.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id NAA19067 for wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:43:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:43:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971016134147_-1797501854@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: W-EMED WEMT in Mass. Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 68983fb2f5da6e009e2da25b5ee0a0c4 X-PMFLAGS: 33554560 0 Here's a winner - in 1994 I took SOLO's WEMT class (add on), When I put in for the CEU's I got a rather blunt letter from OEMS that in basiclly said I could wind up just short of going to jail if I were to use any of the proceedures, that did not follow already established regional protocols (soon to be statewide) which inc. nothing regarding long term field care. The Comm of Mass seems to think that here is no woods in the state, but as I sit here in 550 + ac. I find it hard to take. Anyone with any help other than who to write (I have already done that & so has Solo) to change this please let me know. Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 15:08:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 15:08:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 15:07:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 15:07:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 15:06:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout07.mail.aol.com (emout07.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.22]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 15:06:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Bighoss19@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout07.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id PAA13066 for wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 15:06:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 15:06:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971016150459_323057704@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Re: EMERGENCY PICTURES Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: a6cea85009cf230f80a331f25a9f4e08 X-PMFLAGS: 33554560 0 Check out The Sceamer's Home page for simulated injury photos http://members.aol.com/mayhempro/ Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:15:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:13:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:13:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:11:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:09:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.ecentral.com (ns.ecentral.com [206.64.70.1]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 19:09:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Default (ppp148.ecentral.com [206.64.70.148]) by www.ecentral.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA25192 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:09:08 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:09:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199710162309.RAA25192@www.ecentral.com> X-Sender: hmpaul@ecentral.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: "Howard M. Paul" Subject: Re: W-EMED WEMT in Mass. Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: f0aadcdae330342a0d311b465b919572 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 It is very common that established protocols (especially regional or statewide) do not recognize procedures taught in W-EMS courses. And, protocol systems vary from state to state. In Colorado, for example, protocols derive from the local physician advisor exclusively, and can cover a singular service agency, a county or a multi-county region -- all depending on the size of the local EMS "system." We have no statewide protocols (and likely never will). My agency is a mountain rescue team based in the foothills west of Denver. We work in the "real" mountains -- up to 14,264'. However, our physician advisor is in metropolitan Denver. The Denver Metropolitan-Wide protocols -- with which he directs his EMS agencies -- are for the urban environment. We find it difficult to "exclude" ourselves, or have "exceptions" accepted by the Denver-area Physician Advisors Group that steers the protocols by consensus. **Any entity teaching W-EMS procedure should overtly advise their students up front that they may not be able to use some of what they are about to learn!** At 01:43 PM 10/16/97 -0400, you wrote: >Here's a winner - in 1994 I took SOLO's WEMT class (add on), When I put in >for the CEU's I got a rather blunt letter from OEMS that in basiclly said I >could wind up >just short of going to jail if I were to use any of the proceedures, that did >not follow already established regional protocols (soon to be statewide) >which inc. nothing regarding long term field care. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- H o w a r d M. P a u l VP, Public Affairs Mgr., Colorado SAR Board EMS Director, Alpine Rescue Team, Evergreen, Colo. "If you don't care where you are, you can't be lost." -- anon. ----------------------------- Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 00:14:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 00:13:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 00:13:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 00:12:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 00:10:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout38.mail.aol.com (emout38.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.72]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 00:10:26 -0400 (EDT) From: JSilver374@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout38.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id AAA28209 for wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 00:09:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 00:09:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971016230901_1868341916@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED WEMT in Mass. Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 3c60c31e31180b3639492b74578a67dc X-PMFLAGS: 33554560 0 In a message dated 97-10-16 13:48:01 EDT, you write: > Here's a winner - in 1994 I took SOLO's WEMT class (add on), When I put in > for the CEU's I got a rather blunt letter from OEMS that in basiclly said I > could wind up > just short of going to jail if I were to use any of the proceedures, that > did > not follow already established regional protocols (soon to be statewide) > which inc. nothing regarding long term field care. The Comm of Mass seems > to > think that here is no woods in the state, but as I sit here in 550 + ac. I > find it hard to take. > > Anyone with any help other than who to write (I have already done that & so > has Solo) to change this please let me know. You've brought up what amounts to an ethical problem. I've taken SOLO WEMT. If I have to use the skills I've been taught it'll be without medical control, probably in a first-responder capacity in a recreational setting... day hiking, backpacking, skiing, etc. (I'm not on a SAR team) So what do I do? Use interventions that are beyond my 'street' level of training and possibly get into legal trouble or ignore my wilderness training for fear of legal action and put the patient at additional risk. I've already decided what I'd do and I think that's the key here. Decide what you're going to do in advance so you don't have to wrestle with the ethical problems on scene. AND know what the possible consequences could be either way. Until the ethical issue is eliminated by some sort of *legally recognized* wilderness protocol it's going to be an individual choice. Jonathan Silver, EMT-D, WEMT Highland Park, NJ Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 01:55:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 01:55:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 01:55:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 01:55:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 01:54:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout10.mail.aol.com (emout10.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.25]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 01:54:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Jaymullen@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout10.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id BAA07795 for wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 01:54:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 01:54:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971017015424_1926087274@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED WEMT in Mass. Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 09832b2bb64ec11b3d67eddebba98215 X-PMFLAGS: 33554560 0 I took SOLO's WEMT class in 1989. They offer fantastic teaching regarding the approach to the treatment of medical problems not often encountered in everyday life. As long as you are 1) proficient at the skills you will perform, 2) acting in the patient's best interests, and 3) performing a skill which is medically indicated, I think you're on relatively safe ground. It's important to note that when you're working in the backcountry, you may be required to do things you wouldn't do if you had access to the medical system. At that time, the law may not back you up, but it would be a reare jury indeed that would convict someone doing their best, when the other option is to place the patient at an exceedingly high risk of loss of life, limb or function. But I'm no lawyer, thank God. Jay Mullen, MD Emergency Medicine University of Arizona Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:16:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:15:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:15:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:03:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:00:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.ecentral.com (ns.ecentral.com [206.64.70.1]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:00:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Default (ppp68.ecentral.com [206.64.70.68]) by www.ecentral.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA24269 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:00:39 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:00:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199710171600.KAA24269@www.ecentral.com> X-Sender: hmpaul@ecentral.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: "Howard M. Paul" Subject: Re: W-EMED WEMT in Mass. Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 5fd15677a7e30f9acf779994cce574d9 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 If you are responding as a member of any EMS agency, and using skills learned in any W-EMS course, if you go beyond or deviate from your agencies established protocols, you may very well be on extremely *unsafe* ground. What this means is that someone without a connection to an EMS organization, such as a casual hiker (a member of the party or not), may actually have more freedom than someone who responds to carry out a rescue, from a responsible agency! At 01:54 AM 10/17/97 -0400, you wrote: As long as you are 1) proficient at the skills you will >perform, 2) acting in the patient's best interests, and 3) performing a skill >which is medically indicated, I think you're on relatively safe ground. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- H o w a r d M. P a u l VP, Public Affairs Mgr., Colorado SAR Board EMS Director, Alpine Rescue Team, Evergreen, Colo. "If you don't care where you are, you can't be lost." -- anon. ----------------------------- Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:11:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:11:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:11:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:10:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:09:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from graf.cc.emory.edu (graf.cc.emory.edu [170.140.1.44]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:09:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from curly.cc.emory.edu (ghaskel@curly.cc.emory.edu [170.140.1.66]) by graf.cc.emory.edu (8.8.7/8.6.9-950630.01osg-itd.null) with SMTP id PAA15469; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:04:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:08:14 -0400 (EDT) From: "Guy H. Haskell" X-Sender: ghaskel@curly.cc.emory.edu To: ems-edu-l@informatics.sunysb.edu, PEDTPT-L@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU, wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu, trauma-list@lists.duq.edu, PED-EM-L@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU Subject: W-EMED Illustrations needed Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 3df6cbb6cd15eb6cd689c403039ce8b9 I am completing an article on prehospital airway devices for an emergency medicine textbook and am looking for illustrations. If you any illustrations of the following to which you have the rights and are willing to share, please contact me directly. I will be happy to give you credit in the article. Many Thanks, Guy eoa egta lma ptl airway combitube oropharygeal airways nasopharyngeal airways et tubes stylette lighted stylette larygoscope blades and handles end tidal CO2 detector bag-valve mask crycothyrotomy kit McSwain dart ______________________________________________________________________________ Guy H. Haskell, Ph.D., REMT-P Emergency Center Egleston Children's Hospital at Emory University Atlanta, GA 30322 e-mail: ghaskel@emory.edu phone: 404-727-4624 fax: 404-727-2133 He who hesitates is probably right. ______________________________________________________________________________ Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:39:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:38:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:38:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:37:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:36:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout10.mail.aol.com (emout10.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.25]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:36:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Bighoss19@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout10.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id QAA13654 for wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:36:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:36:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971017163609_-1797310777@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED WEMT in Mass. Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 3c1ae1cc9bc0aa422d18126e319a001e X-PMFLAGS: 33554560 0 Thanks for the suggestions - I think when the need arises I'll DO what is needed, and worry about the legal questions latter. my org. post: Here's a winner - in 1994 I took SOLO's WEMT class (add on), When I put in for the CEU's I got a rather blunt letter from OEMS that in basiclly said I could wind up just short of going to jail if I were to use any of the proceedures, that did not follow already established regional protocols (soon to be statewide) which inc. nothing regarding long term field care. The Comm of Mass seems to think that here is no woods in the state, but as I sit here in 550 + ac. I find it hard to take. Anyone with any help other than who to write (I have already done that & so has Solo) to change this please let me know. Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/cispop-1.6.1.5) ID ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 21:48:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cispo-7.0.1.2) ID ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 21:47:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 21:47:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 21:47:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 21:47:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout25.mail.aol.com (emout25.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.130]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.7/8.8.7/cisls-7.0.1.6) ID for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 21:47:22 -0400 (EDT) From: JSilver374@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout25.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id VAA28707 for wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 21:46:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 21:46:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971017214258_660838722@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED WEMT in Mass. Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 3b4881c5e24a2c7c3dd3fb04aabdea9b X-PMFLAGS: 33554560 0 In a message dated 97-10-17 01:56:41 EDT, you write: ....snip, snip, snip... > It's important to note that when you're working in the backcountry, you may > be required to do things you wouldn't do if you had access to the medical > system. At that time, the law may not back you up, but it would be a reare > jury indeed that would convict someone doing their best, when the other > option is to place the patient at an exceedingly high risk of loss of life, > limb or function. Agreed. I probably wouldn't go to jail but I do need to understand there is the (slim) possibilty I could wind up going head to head with some over zealous county prosecutor plus the attendent legal costs. :( Of course if there's a good outcome, I'm probably off the hook! ;) > > But I'm no lawyer, thank God. Ditto :-D > > Jay Mullen, MD > Emergency Medicine > University of Arizona Jonathan Silver, EMT-D, WEMT Highland Park, NJ Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the